Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

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javier_getafe
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby javier_getafe » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:24 pm

Iversen wrote:So in other words I can use whatever word I want here .


Indeed!!! Albeit I would like to add one more think. Without any intention of arguing. :)
As you can imagine, for a native is pretty easy to recognize if a compotition belong to México, Argentina, Venezuela, Colombia or others Latam countries. And I am not talking about accents but the words (true that some of them own similar accent or use alike words). The most recognizable accents are, for instead México or Argentina. What I mean to say is that your composition is made using a spanish style. It is crystal clear owing the connectors, adjetives, noums and verbs that you are using. For example, the use of "computadora" or " celular" (instead of "ordenador" or "móvil") doesn't sound weird if I am reading a Venezolan or Cuban composition because I instinctivily recognize that the drafting is from across the pond, if you know what I mean.

Iversen wrote:But then Felix went on a voyage to England, where he met queen Victoria (who narrowly escaped becoming a victim of the Salic law which still was observed in Hannover). And then the queen said that she very much liked a particular song. Guess who had written it...


A lot of time since the last time I heard about Salic law.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Querneus » Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:45 am

Iversen, I have now made the pull request to add your Guide to Learn Languages to the LLorg blog.

https://github.com/language-learners/blog/pull/6
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:46 am

LAT: Valde felix sum propter publicationem impendentam, et ego gratiam magnam Seri debeo quia tantam laborem perfecit ut accideret. Mihi paret processus publicandi simplex non esse... Per githubem ad astra! :P

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:10 pm

EN: At 2:08 CET past night I reached the end of the alphabet with two files named after mr. Zimmer, but containing an avalanche of recent film music. In principle that means that I now can restart my linguistic studies. However the first item on my agenda isn't Albanian wordlists or texts about dreamiong in Irish or Indonesian or things like that, but a lecture I have promised to do Wednesday next week on the topic of the origin of the Indoeuropean languages, and this lecture will be in Danish.

DA: Så lad mig for en ordens skyld minde om om at jeg forelæste om dette emne to gange i Bratislava og skrev en del om det her på dette forum, men forelæsningen vil blive på et noget mindre teknisk niveau, da tilhørerne vil være seniormedlemmer af min gamle fagforening (Magisterforeningen), og selv om de per definition allesammen er akademikere, er det de færreste der har en decideret sproglig baggrund. Jeg skal også have besøgt min familie, så alt i alt bliver der ikke så meget tid tilovers til andre formål før engang i midten af næste uge.

Debatforum.JPG

IT: Il progetto che mi ha tenuto occupato questa ultima settimana fu la recensione completa della mia collezione musicale. Ero stanco di incontrare errori imprevisti o pezzi musicali con una intolerabile qualità del suono mentre stavo studiando o facevo altre cose - meglio cercare gli errori in modo proattivo e correggerli subito. Uno dei vantaggi di aver la sua collezione divisa in file con una durata tipicamente tra 40 e 50 minuti è che posso scegliere di iniziare un file e poi non devo interrompere le mia altre attività per scelgere un nuovo pezzo ogni 5 minuti. Io so che cosa sta per arrivare e conosco i pezzi e posso affidarmi nel fatto che sono tutti selezionati da me stesso con attenzione alla qualità e sequenza logica.

E perché scrivo questo in italiano? Bene, un buon esempio di un grave errore riguarda la musica italiana del primo barocco. Avevo un paio di file con la musica di Giovanni Legrenzi 'ed altri', tra cui un certo Massimiliano Neri. Così nel 2018 ho trovato qualque altri pezzi dal signor Neri e ho deciso di creare una coppia di file con lui come figura di riferimento. E ho assemblato altrimenti piccole canzonette e sonate con una durata tipica di 3-5 minuti, abbastanza per riempire due file di almeno 40 minuti -e l'ho registrato tutto con cautela nel mio catalogo. . E ahime! .. ho dimenticato di salvare il risultato! Fortunatamente, avevo qualche vecchi file e altre fonti in modo che Neri 1a e b potessero essere ricostruiti, ma preferisco non incontrare un tal problema di bomba nel bel mezzo di un'attività di studio linguistico (o la fattura di una pizza).

FR: : La même chose m'est passé avec Mont 1a et b - c'est-à-dire les deux fichiers que j'avais soigneusement composé principalement avec de la musique de monsieur Henri du Mont (ou Dumont, né Thier), un compositeur bien connu au 17. siècle - et totalement oublié depuis. J'avais déjà UN fichier avec des pièces par lui et des contemporains autrefois fameux comme Racquet, Costeley, le Jeune, Caurroy et Roberday, mais ce fichier était couplé a un fichier avec de la musique espagnole pour l'orgue de la même époque, nommé après l'immortel Francisco Correa de Arrauxo. Or ma collection de la musique baroque pour l'orgue de l'Espagne s'est aggrandie, et j'ai du créer une nouvelle demeure pour ses collègues français. Mais encore une fois: j’avais rassemblé un tas de fichiers sources et, quand je les ai fermés dans Audacity, j’ai apparemment fermé les deux nouveux fichiers Mont 1a et b aussi sans les sauvegarder. Bah! Heureusement, j'avais conservé les fichiers sources pour presque tout et je pouvais reconstituer les fichiers manquants, mais il me faut du moins une heure pour corriger une telle gaffe.

GER: Darüber hinaus gab es tonnenweise Probleme mit Stücken von schlechter Klangqualität. Manchmal konnte das Problem mit den Werkzeugen von Audacity gelöst werden (zB schiefer Balance, unerwünschte Schwankungen der Lautstärke, zu viel oder zu wenig Bass und Kratzer), aber mitunter mußte ich auch mich dazu beschließen, eine Aufzeichnung durch eine andere zu ersetzen, und hier gibt es dann auche immer noch etliche Aufgaben zu lösen in der Zukunft. In einige wenigen Fällen habe ich mich jedoch aus nostalgischen Gründen für die alte, knisternde und zerkratzte Versionen entschieden - z.B. bei einigen Klavierstücken von W.A.Mozart und bei der Suite la Battaglia vom Barokkomponisten Heinrich Isac Franz von Biber (sonst meist bekannt als Meister der falsch gestimmten Violinen). Ich habe als Kind mehrere kleine 17-cm-Platten von meinem Arzt als geschenk bekommen, den er als Werbung von verschiedenen Pharmaunternehmen verschickt bekommen hat und nicht selber besonders schätzte. Er kannte aber meine Interesse für Musik und hat sie mir gegeben. Diese Aufnahmen sind also Teil meiner persönlichen Geschichte.

Sonate prima da opus 2 di Massimiliano Neri.jpg
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:11 am

I have been writing a synopsis for my lecture about language historie next week, and even though it isn't finished I have made solid progress already now - which has been possible because I already have a lot of materials about the subject.

I'm still baffled by the speed with which the Yamnaya could overpower most of Europe and keep the men in the old agricultural societies from breeding - especially since agriculture wasn't replaced by a nomadic way of life - ergo, the farmer women still got children, just not with the farmer men, who however must have been there to work the fields. And even though the monopolisation of females seems to have petered out after a few centuries the 'harm' - or whatever you choose to call it - had then already happened. In Ireland more than 80% of male Y-chromosomes can be traced back to the Yamnayas, slightly less in for instance Denmark and even less on the Balkan Peninsula (which is somewhat confusing since people there are closer to the Yamnaya homelands) - leaving only far away, overseas places like Sardinia, Norway, Southern Sweden and Finland outside the area affected by the Yamnaya invasion.

What a weird period, and still totally impossible to see any impact by these new research results on the expositions of the archeological museums - not even the Danish National Museum, where the brother of Eske Willerslev is the director.

But did the Yamnaya actually bring the Proto-Indoeuropean language (or languages) to Europa AND India? At least the distribution of centum and satem languages seem to indicate that the unified phase of the Proto-Indoeuropean must have ceased already before the expansionist period - otherwise it would be difficult to explain that the Baltic and Slavic languages (and maybe also Albanian) are in the Satem camp, while Italic, Celtic and Germanic languages and even Greek are in the centum camp - and so are Tocharian A and B in Central Asia.

Since I lectured in Bratislava I have seen some claims that the Slavic tribes in the former DDR were there already thousands of years ago, early enough to influence and be influenced by the Germanic languages. I can't say whether this is correct, but it is normally taught that Slavic languages didn't come to Eastern Europe before at least one hundred years after the turmoils following the Hunnic invasion in the 400s. I can't really see how these conflicting informations can be reconciled, and it may in principle be necessary to assume that the Slavic post-Attila invasions just happened to take place on lands already populated by bearers of the R1A haplogroup genes - and maybe already speaking some early precursor of a Slavic language - nobody knows..

And I'm unlikely to find an answer to this dilemma before Wednesday.

Current-levels-of-R1a-haplogroup(Eupedia).jpg
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:58 am

POR: Durante o meu viagem recente a Recife et Natal e Lisboa eu visitei o museu de história natural Louis Jacques Brunet num liceo de Recife. O museu foi fundado por um professor há muito tempo e fica provavelmente preservado principalmente como uma ferramenta de ensino para os estudantes da escola, mas também está aberto ao público - mas muito público não é. Ele està marcado no Google Maps, mas não há muito que o anuncie - por exemplo, não há sinal na rua, mas a administração do museu tentará fazê-lo mais visível agora. Eu cheguei sem ter organizado um passeio, mas este foi organizado e eu tenho uma visita guiada pessoal. Abaixo, prometi enviar algumas fotos de museus dinamarqueses semelhantes.

Na minha própria escola primária havia uma sala de história natural com muitos bichinhos e pásaros empalhados, mas não havia telefones com câmera embutida nos anos 60, então a exposição nunca fui fotografado. Em vez disso, enviei algumas fotos de museus com vitrines com fauna de escolas ... e uma foto de um lontra gigante brasileira do zoológico de Givskud. Mas um més passou sem qualquer resposta, e eu realmente não esperava tiver uma respostae - talvez o endereço de e-mail estivesse fora de uso. Mas hoje encontrei uma resposta amistosa na minha caixa de e-mail, e me agradava receber um e-mail do Brasil.

CAT: Aquest matí ja em vaig despertar a les 6 hores i vaig passar el matí llegint articles del lloc web ciencia.ara.cat, incloent un article sobre la mida física dels àtoms. L'àtom més petit és l'hidrogen normal, que només té un protó al nucli i un electró en òrbita. El atom de deuteri també té un oprotron e un neutró i, a continuació, cada vegada hi ha més partícules al nucli i els electrons han de trobar espai en vies d’energia més alta i alta i han de correr més i més rápidament. Quan aconsegueixen la velocitat de la llum no es poden afegir més electrons, i això passa per un nombre atòmic de circa 137. Però com que já o Livermorium (número atòmic 116) només té una vida mitjana de sis mil·lisegons, o limite teorètic realment no pot importar molt...

EN: My main task today will be to finish the synopsis for the lecture I'll be giving tomorrow. I'll be speaking in Danish, but the main part of my sources are in English so it won't be much of a language training experience.

F4904a02_Lontra gigante.jpg
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Eriol » Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:07 am

Iversen wrote:I have been writing a synopsis for my lecture about language historie next week, and even though it isn't finished I have made solid progress already now - which has been possible because I already have a lot of materials about the subject.

I'm still baffled by the speed with which the Yamnaya could overpower most of Europe and keep the men in the old agricultural societies from breeding - especially since agriculture wasn't replaced by a nomadic way of life - ergo, the farmer women still got children, just not with the farmer men, who however must have been there to work the fields. And even though the monopolisation of females seems to have petered out after a few centuries the 'harm' - or whatever you choose to call it - had then already happened. In Ireland more than 80% of male Y-chromosomes can be traced back to the Yamnayas, slightly less in for instance Denmark and even less on the Balkan Peninsula (which is somewhat confusing since people there are closer to the Yamnaya homelands) - leaving only far away, overseas places like Sardinia, Norway, Southern Sweden and Finland outside the area affected by the Yamnaya invasion.

What a weird period, and still totally impossible to see any impact by these new research results on the expositions of the archeological museums - not even the Danish National Museum, where the brother of Eske Willerslev is the director.

But did the Yamnaya actually bring the Proto-Indoeuropean language (or languages) to Europa AND India? At least the distribution of centum and satem languages seem to indicate that the unified phase of the Proto-Indoeuropean must have ceased already before the expansionist period - otherwise it would be difficult to explain that the Baltic and Slavic languages (and maybe also Albanian) are in the Satem camp, while Italic, Celtic and Germanic languages and even Greek are in the centum camp - and so are Tocharian A and B in Central Asia.

Since I lectured in Bratislava I have seen some claims that the Slavic tribes in the former DDR were there already thousands of years ago, early enough to influence and be influenced by the Germanic languages. I can't say whether this is correct, but it is normally taught that Slavic languages didn't come to Eastern Europe before at least one hundred years after the turmoils following the Hunnic invasion in the 400s. I can't really see how these conflicting informations can be reconciled, and it may in principle be necessary to assume that the Slavic post-Attila invasions just happened to take place on lands already populated by bearers of the R1A haplogroup genes - and maybe already speaking some early precursor of a Slavic language - nobody knows..

And I'm unlikely to find an answer to this dilemma before Wednesday.

Current-levels-of-R1a-haplogroup(Eupedia).jpg


A small popular science tip for those who can understand Swedish:

Swedish TV recently aired a miniseries about "The First Swedes" focusing on prehistory and the Yamnaya invasion.
https://www.svtplay.se/video/21165363/d ... -avsnitt-1
High quality production and very interesting, but it doesn't give much info about the bigger picture, only what happened inside Sweden's current borders. Anyway, it can be watched online from the whole world and it's possible to turn on text to make understanding easier.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:16 pm

The funny thing about Scandinavia is that it was relatively immune to the Yamnaya invasion - although it did take over many cultural elements from the areas just across the Baltic Sea. About half the male population in central and Norway still have the haplogroup I, whose presence in Europe can be dated back at least to the agricultural revolution, maybe even earlier, and among those who belong to the R haplogroups the majority belongs to the R1b group from Western Europa - from 10 to 20% - while the percentage of men with R1A (which is by far the most common group in Poland and the adjacent parts of Russia) is below 10%.

Haplogroup_I (Eupedia).jpg

The Finns have of course done their own sisu thing since time immemorial, keeping their N haplogroup at a constant record breaking level.

Haplogroupe-N_FINLAND!.jpg

And I'm of course still buried in my studies of old population patterns versus language families.

PS: Efter att ha avslutet min synopsis har jag följt Eriols förslag ock lyssnat (och tittat) på de två historiska videon på den svenska TVs website, och på video nr 2 reciterar en dam en legend om hestar på rekonstruerad protoeuropeisk. Det språk som togs till Sverige av Yamnayaene är emellertid säkert en version som redan var senare än splittringen i centum-satem-språk. Men denna variant har uppenbarligen inte dokumenterats. Vi vet inte ett dugg om hur långt den var från det Protogermaniske språksteg - kun att det kanske vora lite tidigt for något sådant.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:44 am

I'm busy writing themes down from some items in my music collection right now, so just one quick message: my talk about the early linguistic history of Europe went well. I had about 1½ hour of effective speech time plus 10 minutes of official question time - plus almost half an hour after that, partly on subjects that weren't covered in the lecture, like the political situation in Denmark between 500 and 800 AD, where there are very few chronicles to tell us what really happened. One of the messages I did get across was that the viking age didn't start with the attack on Lindisfarne, as traditional history writyers have led people to believe. That attack only got famous because the surviving monks could write about it, but if you look at the archeologic evidence in Denmark then the socalled 'Germanic' iron age (the period that followed after the demise of the Western Roman empire) developed almost imperceptibly into the socalled viking age. We do have the writings of Saxo grammaticus & co. to give names of kings and heroes and villains galore, but these informations have mostly been written off as folklore and tall tales by traditional history writers. I do think they should be taking more seriously, although obviously not to the point of believing all the lists of reigning monarchs or all the saucy tales found in Gesta Danorum. But the evidence points to a situation where regal houses in Jutland and on the Danish Islands plus Scania did compete for power, and there is no indication of a sharp division line between the Iron age and the Viking age - or rather, if there is one, then it should be put around 600 AD at the time where the older futharc was dropped in favour of a simplified (and rather inadequate) runic alphabet.

As for the theme of the lecture, the tale about the Yamnaya etc etc (which you have read about in this log and in several threads initiated by member Kraut) went well with this audience, and it was evident that they not only understood it (contrary to certain members of the censorship committee of the Bratislava gathering), but also accepted that the genetic facts found during the last ten years or so simply have overturned the old idea about slow and peaceful transmission of ideas from one sedentary population to the next sedentary population. No, there was an invasion, and the invaders were strong enough to change the genetic landscape of Europe by an almost complete monopolization of the female population for at least a couple of generations (whether it was as wiwes or concubines or sex slaves we'll never know).

My audience also nodded with glee when I told them that the Finnish Y-haplogroup N and in all likelyhood the predecessors of the Finnish language have as least long a history in the area as the Basques have in their area - at least as far back as the agricultural revolution, but more likely even further back since hunting was more important in this part of the world than agriculture. Actually the male Basques are predominantly R1B1 like almost everybody else in that part of Europe so whatever particular genetic inheritage there is today's Euskadi must have been transmitted through the mothers of yore - like the high percentage of people with bloodtype 0. I didn't commit myself on the possible relations of the Basque language(s) to for instance Georgian, partly because I recently have read an article that purported to show a distant relationship with the reconstructed ProtoIndoeuropean language. To boot the Scandinavian population have less than half the amount of Yamnaya compared to for instance the Irish, and the rest is mainly ´haplogroups dating all the way back to the original dark-skinned, blue-eyed hunter-gatherers from just after the end of the Ice age.

So all in all giving this lecture confirmed my suspicion that my ability to communicate and tell people concrete facts is intact. But it may neverless have been my last lecture ever since I have lost faith in the selection committees of the polyglot events and won't be submitting more proposals to them.

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:54 pm

I have been working on my music collection the last couple of days, in in this moment I'm actually following a Music quiz in Danish TV - one where the classical works are played backwards etc or hammered out on percussion or rendered by using plastic tubes on the heads on the team members (i.e. with tone levels but no rhythms) One team did right now NOT recognize the 3 movement Iberia from Images by Claude Debussy, whereas the other had a participant who had conducted Copland's Fanfare for the common man (which also has been used in a symphony) - so only points to team two. And team two now has to guess the ballet Billy the Kid ... and and ... yes, they knew it. Hurray. And I did too - else I would have been rather disappointed, after all the time I have invested in that art form.

I could now have added that I hadn't had time to study languages, but no - I have studied some Russian texts, including one about Steller's sea cow, which had the dire misfortune to be exceedingly tasty and to live on the path of some hungry polar explorers and hunters.

RUS: Морская корова Стеллера к несчастью уже вымер. Она была обнаружена в одной из экспедиций Витуса Беринга, и я нашел эту статью как побочный снимок поиска датского исследователя Беринга. Самые большие экземпляры достигалы длины 9 метров, но это просто означает, что для голодного экипажа корабля будет еще больше поесть. В тропических водах все еще есть более мелкие родственники, а именно Ламантины и Дугоны, а более отдаленные родственники представляет на самом деле слоны и хираксы. На острове Врангеля за 5000 лет до Христа на самом деле были мамонты, и если бы они жили дольше несколько тысяч лет, исследователи также съели бы их - со сметаной и маринованными огурцами в качестве аксессуара.

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