Water-logged

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
User avatar
eido
Blue Belt
Posts: 989
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:31 pm
Languages: EN (N), ES (B2), others
x 1619

Water-logged

Postby eido » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:01 am

Welcome to my log.

If your curiosity's been piqued, check below to see what I'm currently working on.

Thanks for stopping by!
Last edited by eido on Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
19 x
"He's satisfied with himself. If you have a soul you can't be satisfied."
- Graham Greene (given to me by @reineke)

User avatar
eido
Blue Belt
Posts: 989
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:31 pm
Languages: EN (N), ES (B2), others
x 1619

Re: Water-logged

Postby eido » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:02 am

Current Goals

Spanish:
  • Achieve a high enough level that I can speak to any future children I might have in natural language that will make them fluent speakers almost indistinguishable from heritage learners in terms of accent and word choice.
  • Become knowledgeable about the language, enough so that I may teach it in a way that's simple and accessible for the students I end up with in class.
  • Have a professional level in speaking with the language, with word choice to match.
  • Be taken seriously as someone who loves Spanish and all it has to offer.

And... whatever's next.

German and Chinese are in the running, as well as maybe Russian, Portuguese, and French. Sustainable dabbling ;)
Last edited by eido on Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.
5 x
"He's satisfied with himself. If you have a soul you can't be satisfied."
- Graham Greene (given to me by @reineke)

User avatar
eido
Blue Belt
Posts: 989
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:31 pm
Languages: EN (N), ES (B2), others
x 1619

Re: Water-logged

Postby eido » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:03 am

Reserved
0 x
"He's satisfied with himself. If you have a soul you can't be satisfied."
- Graham Greene (given to me by @reineke)

User avatar
Axon
Blue Belt
Posts: 568
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:29 am
Location: California
Languages: Comfortable: German, Mandarin, Indonesian.
Rusty: Spanish, French, Russian.
Also: Cantonese, Vietnamese, Polish.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5086
x 1958

Re: Water-logged

Postby Axon » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:50 am

I envy your ability to come up with interesting log titles.

What interests you in Indonesian and Malagasy? There was a Malagasy speaker in my Indonesian class. He didn't talk much, but from what I gathered, learning Indonesian for him was something vaguely like learning Gothic would be for an English speaker: an undercurrent of familiarity buried under many centuries of linguistic and cultural divergence. He picked Javanese right up in the second semester.

I posted some time ago about MattVsJapan and his Mass Immersion Approach. I mention him here simply because he's one of a handful of YouTube "personalities" who has achieved a really stunningly high level of bilingualism through learning on his own, and one of even fewer who frequently interacts with others to discuss his learning methods. Check that out if you're interested.

Have you watched Castle in the Sky? I know that there are some novelizations of Ghibli movies out there, and I imagine at least one or two are in Spanish.
2 x

User avatar
eido
Blue Belt
Posts: 989
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:31 pm
Languages: EN (N), ES (B2), others
x 1619

Re: Water-logged

Postby eido » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:13 pm

Axon wrote:I envy your ability to come up with interesting log titles.

Thank you, I guess :) I try to come up with puns. This particular title has been in my head for months now.

I heard Indonesian was an underrated "big" language, and I decided to check it out. What often cements my impression of a language is how it sounds, so I listened to some clips in it, and it sounded fine. I didn't want to leave South Asia out of my exploration of the continent, so I figured I should learn some Indonesian. I can't stay trapped in Korea and Japan forever. I've already bought a lifetime membership to an online Indonesian learning site which I'll hopefully use soon. I might need to download everything and put it on my phone for later use, since I only seem to get things reliably done when I'm in my car, unable to do anything but observe the world around me. (Yes, some people zone out, but I'm a pretty cautious driver.)

As for Malagasy, I mentioned in @Morgana's log that I like islands. I think I was searching for languages spoken on islands, and I found Malagasy. It seemed interesting with its word order, and I'm very interested in how culture develops on islands, so it seemed like a good deal. Madagascar's culture seems lively and rich. There aren't many English resources I've been able to find, but I went on that Dunwoody Publishing site and shelled out a good chunk of change for their newspaper reader and grammar to see if I can learn anything from it. If not, I might have to learn some French. As I mentioned in another thread somewhere on LLORG, there's a college in France that allows you to major in Malagasy. Cool, right? At least, I think so.

I've heard of MIA. I believe @Sarafina commented about it once. I'm just not sure how it works :cry: I wanted to try it with various languages with a lot of media output, like Korean and Spanish. I think I'm halfway to MIA in the sense that any series I want to watch, I usually pick the Spanish version for. I've only watched one English movie on Netflix in the past three months, even longer. (Of course, my parents have that dastardly TV on in the background in the evenings which plays only English-language media. Do I just scream, "La la la la -- I can't hear you"? Haha.)

I tried watching that movie the other day. It was in the Spain Spanish dialect/accent, and that at the moment is the hardest for me to understand, so I stopped about 15 minutes in. Princess Mononoke was in that dialect, but it wasn't too bad. It had clear pronunciation. Castle in the Sky, however, had slurred words and... interesting audio quality. The storyline was typically Ghibli, though, and it had me intrigued from the first two minutes.

--

What are people's experiences with learning from grammars and prose readers? Or just beginner texts? I've tried my hand at them several times. I comb through them, trying to get the gist, but I think my problem is I never put what I learn into practice. What's the best thing I can do with a beginner textbook? Repeat dialogues in the MP3s over and over? I'm expecting a few in the mail this week. I know this is subjective. Any links to people's logs of particular note that started out with this method would be appreciated.

Also, I might ask: My parents grew up with Polish in the house. But they speak Polish imperfectly now. My mom understands better than she can speak, and she usually understands most basic vocabulary relating to household issues well. I'd say her level might be B1. And their pronunciation is interesting, especially my dad's. By "interesting", I mean it does not sound native-like at all to me, though I'm an amateur judge at best. With these resources, how would you use them?

I'll come back with more questions later. I'm trying to plan my studies for years to come this way.
Last edited by eido on Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1 x
"He's satisfied with himself. If you have a soul you can't be satisfied."
- Graham Greene (given to me by @reineke)

User avatar
eido
Blue Belt
Posts: 989
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:31 pm
Languages: EN (N), ES (B2), others
x 1619

Re: Water-logged

Postby eido » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:24 pm

Perhaps that was a weird way to kick things off. But at least it wasn't drama-filled.

Yesterday I got my Polish book in the mail! It's the one @StringerBell recommended in the Polish Resources thread. It seems nice so far.

I guess, since I didn't get any responses to my question, I'll just work on memorizing the phrases in this book. It starts with basic pleasantries. I haven't opened the CD yet.

It's a very pretty book.
polishbook1.jpg
polishbook1.jpg (370.9 KiB) Viewed 795 times

My dad likes to deny that many of the phrases used in the book are the correct ones, but he was never a true speaker of Polish and only learned it truly in school, so I don't think I can trust him.

The problem with using stuff my parents don't know is that... they don't know it. So either I have to teach them it or just practice what little they recognize. Hmm. That's why I asked that question earlier. Hopefully someone will come along and answer it.

This book is better than some other ones I've found. I hope I still love the grammar-translation method after using it, and that it teaches me a lot.

Currently I can't read Polish worth a damn. Pronunciation is hard.
5 x
"He's satisfied with himself. If you have a soul you can't be satisfied."
- Graham Greene (given to me by @reineke)

StringerBell
Blue Belt
Posts: 797
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:30 am
Languages: English (n)
Italian: ~ C1 reading/listening and ? speaking
Polish : on hiatus
Latin: beginner
x 2152

Re: Water-logged

Postby StringerBell » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:23 pm

That's so cool, I didn't realize you could get Speak Polish as a physical book; I have a digital version.

I've written a lot about how I started out with Polish, so I don't want to repeat myself here, but if you have questions about things I did in the early stages, I'm happy to explain.

If you aren't sure if a phrase in that book is really used, you can ask about it, there are some very helpful resident Polish experts :D. You will be more likely to attract their attention if you put "Polish" somewhere in the title. I'm certainly no authority, but I can at least tell you if it's something I come across regularly and it's legit. In the first lesson, the only thing that wasn't familiar to me was "Nawzajem / Wzajemnie = you, too / same to you". That doesn't necessarily mean anything, it might be that I've just heard this idea expressed differently. Out of curiousity, which are the phrases your dad didn't think were right?

An issue I have when trying to speak Polish with my mom is that she grew up in the US and doesn't watch, listen, or read to Polish media, so she doesn't know a lot of modern vocabulary; if I use some term that's relatively new and she doesn't know what I'm saying, I never know if it's because of her knowledge gap or I'm saying something wrong. Sometimes when she doesn't know how to say a word in Polish, she repurposes an English word in its place, so I'm sometimes suspicious when I hear her incorporating English words even though there are legitimately a lot of "Polish-ized" English words. She also can't answer any grammar questions because she never studied the grammar in school, she just knows how things are supposed to be (for the most part). However, she can be a good partner for repeatedly practicing really basic stuff, like talking about what we did that day; stuff that would bore to tears a LEP.

In the beginning, when I came across weird (to me) constructions, I could ask her to confirm that it really was said that way. For example: In English, we'd say "I am cold" but in Polish it's "It is cold to me": "Jest mi zimno" When I first saw that, I didn't understand what the heck was going on, but she confirmed that really is how you say it, and she gave me some other examples.

eido wrote:Currently I can't read Polish worth a damn. Pronunciation is hard.


You'll slowly get much better with a lot of exposure as you listen while reading. My experience is that years ago when I started out speaking without having done any listening, pronunciation was really difficult. This time around, I waited to start speaking until after I'd listened to ~800 hours, and pronunciation felt fairly easy. I still struggle with some sound combinations and words, but now at least I have a good feel for how things should sound. It's hard to say something correctly if you're not sure how it's supposed to sound.
3 x
Italian goal: transcribe 10 episodes of Lucifer : 3 / 10
Link to the Italian transcripts I created for season 4 Lucifer: https://learnanylanguage.fandom.com/wik ... ranscripts

User avatar
MamaPata
Blue Belt
Posts: 977
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:25 am
Location: London
Languages: English (N), French (C1*), Russian (B1), Spanish (B1).

Long lost: Arabic and Latin.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3004
x 1680

Re: Water-logged

Postby MamaPata » Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:47 pm

eido wrote:May of 2019, I will have begun the process of enrolling in a double major in education and Spanish. Then I will hopefully graduate and move on to getting a Master's in Spanish. By the end of this, I hope to be effectively bilingual. "Bilingual as I could be," as I like to say.


I don't really understand how the US system works. When will you start studying? Will you then be doing that for four years (and then theoretically a one/two year masters? I know you mentioned that you're doing a distance course. Will this one also be a distance course or is it a brick-and-mortar college?
0 x
Corrections appreciated.

User avatar
eido
Blue Belt
Posts: 989
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:31 pm
Languages: EN (N), ES (B2), others
x 1619

Re: Water-logged

Postby eido » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:27 pm

StringerBell wrote: Out of curiosity, which are the phrases your dad didn't think were right?

An issue I have when trying to speak Polish with my mom is that she grew up in the US and doesn't watch, listen, or read to Polish media, so she doesn't know a lot of modern vocabulary; if I use some term that's relatively new and she doesn't know what I'm saying, I never know if it's because of her knowledge gap or I'm saying something wrong. Sometimes when she doesn't know how to say a word in Polish, she repurposes an English word in its place, so I'm sometimes suspicious when I hear her incorporating English words even though there are legitimately a lot of "Polish-ized" English words. She also can't answer any grammar questions because she never studied the grammar in school, she just knows how things are supposed to be (for the most part). However, she can be a good partner for repeatedly practicing really basic stuff, like talking about what we did that day; stuff that would bore to tears a LEP.

You'll slowly get much better with a lot of exposure as you listen while reading. My experience is that years ago when I started out speaking without having done any listening, pronunciation was really difficult. This time around, I waited to start speaking until after I'd listened to ~800 hours, and pronunciation felt fairly easy.

There are a lot of things he thinks aren't right. If it's something he hasn't heard, he goes, "They don't use that phrase! What is this? They say it this way..." And I'm like, "Is this even Polish?" I'm sure his Polish is correct on some level, but it sounds very awkward to me. He'll chat up anyone and can hold a conversation with a native speaker, but he uses a lot of circumlocution to get his point across. On my old log I made a quick recording which can be found in the first post of me speaking some of the phrases I know that he repeats ad nauseam.

My mom doesn't pay attention to much Polish media, either. She follows a few Facebook pages based out of Chicago where she grew up and occasionally tries to test her comprehension, but that's it. Her father used to invent words, too! One I remember right now is "zons", pronounced "zones", which means something in between "ago" and "when". For example, "Zons I was eighteen..." Haha, I love it.

I get the basics of pronunciation, but my skills aren't refined.

Speaking of Polish, I might get to go to Poland this summer! And maybe Iceland. If I did, it would not only be a dream come true but my first trip out of the country. Oh, what to do, what to do? Anyone reading this -- if you had to pick a place to go, where would you go? My options are basically limited to Europe and Canada. The United States, too, of course.
MamaPata wrote:I don't really understand how the US system works. When will you start studying? Will you then be doing that for four years (and then theoretically a one/two year masters? I know you mentioned that you're doing a distance course. Will this one also be a distance course or is it a brick-and-mortar college?

Hopefully I'll start studying in the summer of 2019, but if not, the fall -- August. I've almost completed a two-year Associate's, so only two more years of a Bachelor's. Then a Master's of about two years. Every degree will be distance. But the student teaching, of course, must be completed in a brick-and-mortar school.

--

My to-find list:
  • Dubs of John Hughes films
  • Dubs of Teen Wolf, the series from the 10s
Some of you may be wondering what my strategy is with listening if I switch from things I can't understand. Sure, sometimes I get it in me that I have to listen to a series that is incomprehensible to me, but most of the time I'm chill. My current idea is this: get used to the sounds of Spanish enough that you can reliably pick out words from the media and look them up. Don't be lost. Challenge yourself occasionally and when you see fit. Listening is so difficult that it's a marvel and a wonder if I even sit down for thirty minutes a day to do it. That's why last year's log was such a success and breakthrough.

Also, I'm looking for more cool content to watch in all my languages. I haven't watched anything new in ages. Music is cool, animated shorts are cool. Go at it.
3 x
"He's satisfied with himself. If you have a soul you can't be satisfied."
- Graham Greene (given to me by @reineke)

User avatar
MorkTheFiddle
Blue Belt
Posts: 899
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:59 pm
Location: usa
Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek, aiming for mastery by 2424. Studying a bit of Latin and Japanese. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
x 1429

Re: Water-logged

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:13 am

eido wrote:Speaking of Polish, I might get to go to Poland this summer! And maybe Iceland. If I did, it would not only be a dream come true but my first trip out of the country. Oh, what to do, what to do? Anyone reading this -- if you had to pick a place to go, where would you go? My options are basically limited to Europe and Canada. The United States, too, of course.
If I were in your shoes, I would pick Poland. It seems as if your heart wants you to go there, so go.
European towns I have visited and enjoyed were Florence, Italy, Munich, Germany, Paris, and Madrid and Granada in Spain.
One place I've not been but would like to see would be the Loire Valley of France and its chateaux.
2 x
Tu sabes cuando sales pero no sabes cuando regresas.


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Daniel N., wynnsam and 1 guest