Kat's Finnish Log (with a dash of French and a pinch of Mandarin)

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Phantom Kat
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Re: Kat's Finnish Log (with a dash of French)

Postby Phantom Kat » Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:28 pm

I took my first personal day in three years this Wednesday to get my passport! Hopefully I get it with no hiccups.

Update!

Assmil

Up to Lesson 58 now. Active Wave up to Lesson 6, so uhh, a bit behind there. (This is what happened when I did Assimil French. I was just too gung-ho about going onto a new lesson that I put off doing the reviews. I'll make it up this weekend.) I'm not at the point in the lessons that I'm getting more instances of "wait, why is that in that case?". I like knowing why everything is declined or conjugated the way it is, so these little instances veer me off into a wild goose chase in Finnish: An Essential Grammar or online.

Children's Books

I'm almost done with Pikku Pöllön Joulu, but I've actually gone into analyzing/reading another book I have: Kummitusperhe Kammoset. It's a small chapter book, so it's not as easy to decipher as the pop-up book. I've actually only done the first two paragraphs. :lol: But I feel like I'm learning a lot. I'm getting used to seeing the Imperfect, as well as the Perfect and the Plusquamperfect. I'm also picking up new expressions or phrases, such as Luukun ottamatta (with the exception of (subject in Partitive)) and Toisensa jälkeen (one after another).

And, I don't mind if the book is pretty beyond my level. Going sentence by sentence, searching online dictionaries for expressions and words, looking up why a case is used in this way, is pretty fun. I'm running across words that are more useful than I thought (like nukhataa - to fall asleep and keksiä - to invent/make up.)

Oh yeah, and I found out that Peffapallo and Kymmentä Tikkua Laudalla are two children's games. I had been scratching my head for like, ten minutes figuring what those words meant in that context.

Conjugating Practice

Sometimes you need to put your nose to the grindstone and just do some conjugating practice. I use whatever paper I have at the time (using math copies I don't need in my classroom is one prime example) and just conjugate and check myself. Right now I'm mainly practicing the Present, Imperfect, Perfect, and Plusquamperfect (and their negatives) before I move on. Everything is pretty straightforward once you get the -nyt/nut/sut/syt, etc. form.

For the Imperfect, I still have to check the notes and rules before I add that -i. But progress was made! The last time I did this, about a month ago, it was more frustrating than anything else.

Writing

I know it's recommended to write journal entries about what you did, but man oh man is that boring to me. I kept a diary back in middle school, but other than that there's just something about writing about what I did in my daily life that makes me feel weird. I enjoy my hobbies to get away from my daily life. Why would I want write about how my admin wastes my time during conferences or how coworkers are spreading rumors? Those things get left at work, where they belong.

So I prefer writing fiction to practice my languages. I have a ton of original character with much more interesting lives. I really liked doing it with French, and I think I'm at the point in Finnish where I can write something that is more exciting than, "The cat was on the table." It's also a big reason I want to get those above tenses down pat. It's pretty boring to just write in the present tense. (And I'm glad that Finnish doesn't have the passé simple to keep track of.)

Last weekend I spent an hour and a half just writing about one of my characters, a hoodlum turned reluctant superhero. Maybe I'll post something later on. Some useful words I found I was using was likkua, hymyillä, and urhea.

Clozemaster

Got back into Clozemaster, now that I can comfortably deduce what the sentence means without looking every word up. It's very addicting doing just one more round. I'm hesitant doing too much of it because I'm not sure how accurate the sentences are as a whole. Has anybody gone through the English --> Suomi track and have any thoughts about it?

Anki

I need to add new words from: Assmil, my writing practice, the children's books I've been doing, and some from Clozemaster that I found useful.

Question Time!

These are from Kummitusperhe Kammoset:

Edellisenä iltana kaikki Onnisen lapset olivat saaneet Ollia lukuun ottamatta valvoa niin myöhään kuin huvitti.


I'm not sure what "kuin huvitti" means in this context. The closest I can come up with "as they felt like/as they wanted". If that's the case, I'm not sure what the rule on the construction is from the verb "huvittaa".

Pienten lasten tapaan, Olli nukahti joka ilta samaan aikaan.


I don't know what "pienten lasten tapaan" means in this sentence. Google Translate says it means "Like little children". Is this part of a fixed expression?

This one is from Assimil:

Siirrä kulhoa tännepäin, otan sitä vielä vähän.


Why is "kulho" in the Partitive? The French translation tells me it's singular: "le plat".
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cathrynm
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Re: Kat's Finnish Log (with a dash of French)

Postby cathrynm » Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:52 am

I've spent some time on the ClozeMaster Finnish-Suomi sentences. To me, I guess, seems close enough. I see a few weird ones now and then, but I'm not good enough to really know for sure. I do like the program, as it's something I can squeeze in on the way to work, something like this.
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Phantom Kat
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Re: Kat's Finnish Log (with a dash of French)

Postby Phantom Kat » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:45 am

cathrynm wrote:I've spent some time on the ClozeMaster Finnish-Suomi sentences. To me, I guess, seems close enough. I see a few weird ones now and then, but I'm not good enough to really know for sure. I do like the program, as it's something I can squeeze in on the way to work, something like this.


Ahh, good to know~ And I agree. Clozemaster is a perfect way to squeeze in some language learning while on the go.
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Re: Kat's Finnish Log (with a dash of French)

Postby cathrynm » Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:29 am

I do like your ideas of doing conjugation practice. Just make a list and conjugate them on paper, then check later. I think fear of weird grammar errors makes me awkward and hesitant to try writing Finnish online, and I'm not just picking this up by instinct either.
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Re: Kat's Finnish Log (with a dash of French)

Postby Bones » Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:56 pm

Phantom Kat wrote:
Edellisenä iltana kaikki Onnisen lapset olivat saaneet Ollia lukuun ottamatta valvoa niin myöhään kuin huvitti.
I'm not sure what "kuin huvitti" means in this context. The closest I can come up with "as they felt like/as they wanted". If that's the case, I'm not sure what the rule on the construction is from the verb "huvittaa".
Your translation is correct. Huvitti is the third person singular Imperfect form of Huvittaa. I think it's in the third person because it's part of something called a kokijalause, but don't take my word for it. (kokea = to experience, kokija = someone who experiences, lause = sentence) These sentences don't have a clear subject and the verb is always in the third person singular. The person "experiencing" is the object of the sentence.

Examples: Minua väsyttää = I'm tired. Heitä onnisti = They got lucky.

Phantom Kat wrote:
Pienten lasten tapaan, Olli nukahti joka ilta samaan aikaan.

I don't know what "pienten lasten tapaan" means in this sentence. Google Translate says it means "Like little children". Is this part of a fixed expression?
Tapa = manner, habit, custom. Pienten lasten tapaan = in the manner of small children / like little children do.

I think it's just a simile made up by the author.

Phantom Kat wrote:
Siirrä kulhoa tännepäin, otan sitä vielä vähän.

Why is "kulho" in the Partitive? The French translation tells me it's singular: "le plat".

I'd say, here it's in the partitive because the bowl is to be moved by an unspecified amount.

By contrast: Siirrä kulho tähän! = Move the bowl here! (to a specific point)

Phantom Kat wrote:So I prefer writing fiction to practice my languages.

Me too. It gives me an excuse to write longer texts without feeling like I've wasted my time in case the final product otherwise turns out to be an artistic failure.
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Phantom Kat
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Re: Kat's Finnish Log (with a dash of French)

Postby Phantom Kat » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:36 am

cathrynm wrote:I do like your ideas of doing conjugation practice. Just make a list and conjugate them on paper, then check later. I think fear of weird grammar errors makes me awkward and hesitant to try writing Finnish online, and I'm not just picking this up by instinct either.


You should totally try it out! Personally it's one of my favorite exercises because, once I get the hang of whatever rule I'm practicing, I can zone out.

I think my fear of making grammar mistakes is what drives me to just buckle down and conjugate. I want to write something in Finnish and post it up, but the fact that I'm not comfortable with a lot of things (i.e. the Imperfect, declining the Partitive Plural, etc.) means I have to do partake in some not-very-creative practices.

Bones wrote:
Phantom Kat wrote:
Edellisenä iltana kaikki Onnisen lapset olivat saaneet Ollia lukuun ottamatta valvoa niin myöhään kuin huvitti.
I'm not sure what "kuin huvitti" means in this context. The closest I can come up with "as they felt like/as they wanted". If that's the case, I'm not sure what the rule on the construction is from the verb "huvittaa".
Your translation is correct. Huvitti is the third person singular Imperfect form of Huvittaa. I think it's in the third person because it's part of something called a kokijalause, but don't take my word for it. (kokea = to experience, kokija = someone who experiences, lause = sentence) These sentences don't have a clear subject and the verb is always in the third person singular. The person "experiencing" is the object of the sentence.

Examples: Minua väsyttää = I'm tired. Heitä onnisti = They got lucky.


Wow, that's interesting! I'll see if I can something about it in my grammar book and read about it.

Bones wrote:
Phantom Kat wrote:
Pienten lasten tapaan, Olli nukahti joka ilta samaan aikaan.

I don't know what "pienten lasten tapaan" means in this sentence. Google Translate says it means "Like little children". Is this part of a fixed expression?
Tapa = manner, habit, custom. Pienten lasten tapaan = in the manner of small children / like little children do.

I think it's just a simile made up by the author.


Oooh, I can see that now. That definitely clears things up.

Phantom Kat wrote:
Siirrä kulhoa tännepäin, otan sitä vielä vähän.

Why is "kulho" in the Partitive? The French translation tells me it's singular: "le plat".

I'd say, here it's in the partitive because the bowl is to be moved by an unspecified amount.

By contrast: Siirrä kulho tähän! = Move the bowl here! (to a specific point)[/quote]

That makes sense. I'll put that in my notes.

Bones wrote:Me too. It gives me an excuse to write longer texts without feeling like I've wasted my time in case the final product otherwise turns out to be an artistic failure.


Amen to that. I could blabber on about an internet dialogue my characters are having and chalk it up as character development to be used later on.

Thanks again for the corrections! They are super helpful!
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Re: Kat's Finnish Log (with a dash of French)

Postby Serpent » Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:22 am

Typos: lukuun ottamatta, liikkua, nukahtaa.
Erik Gunnemark recommended writing double letters as capital ones (lukUUn) to remember them. you may want to use a different form to lessen the number of them, like LIIkun (ok this still looks super awkward but that's easier when writing by hand. L is only capital for clarity)

also, 'he' is implied in niin myöhään kuin (heitä) huvitti.
Bones wrote:I'd say, here it's in the partitive because the bowl is to be moved by an unspecified amount.

By contrast: Siirrä kulho tähän! = Move the bowl here! (to a specific point)
Ohhh interesting. Never thought of this explicitly.
Phantom Kat wrote:Reminds me of the Spanish distinction of "pata"
pata also exists in Finnish :D but the longest word shared by Finnish and Spanish is probably asunto.
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Phantom Kat
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Re: Kat's Finnish Log (with a dash of French)

Postby Phantom Kat » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:57 am

Serpent wrote:Typos: lukuun ottamatta, liikkua, nukahtaa.
Erik Gunnemark recommended writing double letters as capital ones (lukUUn) to remember them. you may want to use a different form to lessen the number of them, like LIIkun (ok this still looks super awkward but that's easier when writing by hand. L is only capital for clarity)

also, 'he' is implied in niin myöhään kuin (heitä) huvitti.
Bones wrote:I'd say, here it's in the partitive because the bowl is to be moved by an unspecified amount.

By contrast: Siirrä kulho tähän! = Move the bowl here! (to a specific point)
Ohhh interesting. Never thought of this explicitly.
Phantom Kat wrote:Reminds me of the Spanish distinction of "pata"
pata also exists in Finnish :D but the longest word shared by Finnish and Spanish is probably asunto.


Those pesky typos! But I'll definitely try the capitalizing trick during my writing and see how that works. Pronouncing the words and being aware of the double consanants and vowels definitely helps, but there's always room for improvement. As my band director used to say (and plaster on our t-shirts), "Good is the enemy of great!"

Haha, I never thought about how "asunto" exists in both languages. "El asunto es que no encuentro asunto." :P
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Phantom Kat
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Re: Kat's Finnish Log (with a dash of French)

Postby Phantom Kat » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:01 am

Update!

I have been lounging around, enjoying that sweet, sweet Spring Break. Man, do I love sleeping in. This past week of school has been stressful (still unsure what I want to do for next year), so rather than study after school I was in the mad rush of grading and scanning tests.

Assimil

Got up to Lesson 60 and Lesson 7 of the second wave. Ehh, other than reviewing past lessons and plugging in vocabulary into Anki I didn't do much with Assimil. I just couldn't sit down and break apart each lesson after running around like a headless chicken.

Grammar

This, this is where all my free time for Finnish went into. I pretty much got any available piece of paper around my classroom (one of them has some very neat notes on 2D and 3D shapes ;) ) and conjugated whatever verb that came to mind into Present, Imperfect, Perfect, Plusquamperfect, and their negative forms. I made some notes on when consonant gradation applies and verbs that follow the same patterns, like haluta and seurata or potkaista and juosta. Bit by bit things seem to be clicking into place. The more verbs I practice, the more verbs I have to make connections with. The Negative Imperfect, Perfect, and Plusquamperfect are the easiest ones, while the Imperfect feels like taking a very educated guess in the dark.

Next up, I want to tackle:
+ one or two of the Passive tenses. That will add some spice to my writing.
+ I also want to start practicing declining nouns and adjectives. The Partitive Plural is my kryptonite. I can't avoid it forever!
+ some of the Third Infinitive. I've already practiced some of it as it came up in Assimil.

Writing

You know what's wonderful for writing? Rory's Story Cubes. I have the original nine (orange box) and the "Action" cubes (blue box). Now that I have a bigger vocabulary the cubes are a lot more useful. I can take the picture on the die literally or figuratively, thus creating a biggest list of words to use. Before I ended up using the same words again and again, but with the cubes I'm forced to be more creative. Also, it helps me look up any common words I don't already know.

What I do with them is roll for around five verbs and five nouns, set my Forest app for 45 minutes, and just write whatever sentences come to mind. Usually, by the last fifteen minutes I end up writing sentences using other words just because I'm already on a roll. I'm hoping to upgrade to short stories (like, really, really short) with more practice.

Since Monday I have written 135 sentences. Main subject? My outcast of a superhero running away from the police and talking with the girl he likes. Classy. :lol:

I want to create a folder in my Google Drive that compiles all the writing I've done in my notebook. I love going back and seeing how much I've improved. (One thing I noticed when I reread what very little I wrote back in November is how much I missed the Accusative case.)

Anki

I'm at 571 Finnish words and phrases. Most of it is from Finnish from Foreigners and Assimil.

Music

You know, I don't listen to as much music as I should. I usually just put on some of my favorite Let's Plays in the background when I study. I'm trying to pay closer attention to the Finnish music on my playlist and pick out words I know. It's pretty exciting to understand more and more of a song you have listened for so long. Some words I have recently learned that came up have been:

+ selittää
+ hengittää
+ nukahtaa
+ kaivaa

I'm sure the teacher in the neighboring class is sick of hearing, "Oh wait, I know that word!" in the wee hours of the afternoon.

Kummitus Perhe Kammoset

So I got to the second page of the first chapter... I'm taking this nice and slow. Luckily, with my grammar practice, it has become easier to identify the different verb tenses and make educated guesses on the infinitive form of words.

Question Time!

Kun ne oli saatu pyydystettyä takaisin säilytysarkkuun, yö oli jo pitkällä.

`
+ I'm pretty sure "pyydystettyä" is a verb along the lines of "trapped" and "caught", but I can't find the exact definition.
+ Is "säilytysarkkuun" some kind of conversation box, container, or cage? Like a terrarium?
+ I get the meaning that "yö oli jo pitkällä" means along the lines of, "The night was already long," but why is pitkä in the Adessive Case?
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Re: Kat's Finnish Log (with a dash of French)

Postby naqvisson » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:10 pm

2. I really, really like the Assimil Finnish course. The dialogues are pretty funny, and I find most of the vocab useful. I do think there's a steep learning curve after Lesson 7 or so. There are times where in a new lesson I can pretty much understand everything except for two or three vocab words. Other times I'm totally lost until I read the translation and pull up Finnish Wikitionary. There are grammar points here and there they don't cover in their notes, so I consult the internet or my Finnish: An Essential Grammar book.

I can share with you the Google Doc I use to take notes on Assimil Finnish. I break each lesson down and make color-coded notes on vocab I'm having trouble and grammar points either not covered by the notes or that I need to remember.


Thank you very much for the offer..This is really encouraging and motivating. I was double minded about starting Finnish or not... and after a good brainstorming session, decided to go for it... i hv a really bad history with the language learning in general and Finnish in particular. I relied on courses,teachers to teach me and failed miserably again and again...and now believe in self learning....and it has been working for me...I was lucky to find Assimil Finnisch ohne muhe in a local library.....and have turned a few pages and miraculously Finnish didnt seem very difficult...(i had taken a couple of courses in it two years ago and performed miserably)....

This time I intend to give it 100 days to see where do I stand....It would be really nice of you if you can please share the google docs. I inbox you.
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