Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

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MorkTheFiddle
Brown Belt
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Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek, aiming for mastery by 2424. Studying a bit of Latin and Japanese. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
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Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:35 pm

moonlyrics wrote:
MorkTheFiddle wrote:I am a bit past half way reading a Spanish translation of the novel.


that sounds fun. good luck with your novel reading. as for latin and greek studies, they seem to be enjoyable for an english speaker. anniversary is coming up august 24th of pompeii's destruction/ preservation by mount vesuvius eruption in 79 C.E.

"Admiror, O paries, te non cecidisse, qui tot scriptorium taedia sustineas.”

“I wonder, O wall, that you have not yet collapsed, so many writers’ clichés do you bear.”

"This phrase seems to have been a popular one, as slightly different versions of it appear in multiple locations throughout Pompeii’s ruins."

Yes, The Tale of Gengi is a fascinating book, both for the very different culture and the interesting characters.
Once past the initial learning stages, some Latin and Ancient Greek can be enjoyable.
I like the quotation. I had never heard it before. Thanks.
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moonlyrics
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Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby moonlyrics » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:08 am

MorkTheFiddle wrote:I like the quotation. I had never heard it before. Thanks.


yes, it's a cliché to insult clichés, so it's quite droll for 1,940 years ago.
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MorkTheFiddle
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Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek, aiming for mastery by 2424. Studying a bit of Latin and Japanese. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
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Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:24 am

My cheating on Mandarin with Japanese seems to have gone whole hog. (I just finished Junichiro Tanizaki's The Key in English translation, so cheating is on my mind :) ) Yesterday I finished another engaging novel translated from Japanese called *The Nakano Thrift Ship* by Hiromi Kawakami (a lady rather well known if not to me). Something along the lines of The Old Curiosity Shop (except I've never read The Old Curiosity Shop :oops: ) full of interesting characters and with a tender and painful love story involving the narrator.

When I was investigating Mandarin, Iguanamon suggested using the Mandarin Bible as a resource. Now that I hope to use haiku as a bulwark of my initial learning, I wonder whether short poems, or only short poems, are the way to go. Then I remember Iguanamon's suggestion and successfully hunt up a Japanese Bible because the Bible has a whole book devoted to poetry, Psalms, and all or nearly all are longer than either haiku or tanka. If memory serves, the Song of Solomon is also a poem. :?: Japanese poetry does include works longer than haiku or tanka. If anyone reading this has a suggestion, please let me know.

Currently I am also reading a family drama about divorce by Euripides called Medea. On the Latin front, I have not got anywhere past the first sentence with Ovem Occidere Mimicam. In Spanish I checked out from the library a translated volume of Tanizaki's stories called Cuentos de amor. I'm also thinking of reviving my Old Norse, at least to the extent of re-reading "Hrafnkels saga freysgoða," a great story for any language. A passage I read in Medea today made me think of it. There is a convenient copy of it in E. V. Gordon's An Introduction to Old Norse, rev 2nd ed by A. R. Taylor (London 1974). Along with some other interesting bits of Old Norse lit.
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tuckamore
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Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby tuckamore » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:10 pm

MorkTheFiddle wrote:Yesterday I finished another engaging novel translated from Japanese called *The Nakano Thrift Ship* by Hiromi Kawakami (a lady rather well known if not to me).
Thanks for this. I'm adding it to my reading list (Japanese, of course ;) ). The first story in 'Read Real Japanese: Fiction' is by Hiromi Kawakami and it is my favourite. So, I've been meaning to look for some more of her works and this gives me a head start.
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MorkTheFiddle
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Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek, aiming for mastery by 2424. Studying a bit of Latin and Japanese. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
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Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:50 pm

tuckamore wrote:
MorkTheFiddle wrote:Yesterday I finished another engaging novel translated from Japanese called *The Nakano Thrift Ship* by Hiromi Kawakami (a lady rather well known if not to me).
Thanks for this. I'm adding it to my reading list (Japanese, of course ;) ). The first story in 'Read Real Japanese: Fiction' is by Hiromi Kawakami and it is my favourite. So, I've been meaning to look for some more of her works and this gives me a head start.
Currently I'm enjoying Kawakami's Briefcase, about a May-December romance.
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devilyoudont
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Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby devilyoudont » Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:51 am

MorkTheFiddle wrote: :?: Japanese poetry does include works longer than haiku or tanka. If anyone reading this has a suggestion, please let me know.


Japanese poetry is almost uniformly short, and even so called long forms like choka still seem short to me (in addition to completely falling out of fashion literally 1000 years ago)

Longer works are almost always a mixture of poetry and prose. On one side of the spectrum, you have works like Tale of Genji and Kagero Nikki which are generally a prose narrative which nevertheless contain a lot of poetry. On another side of the spectrum you have "uta monogatari" works such as Tales of Ise which are more or less loose collections of poetry which suggest themes or narratives connected by small amounts of prose which may or may not actually be part of the suggested narrative.

As the name "uta monogatari" suggests (uta = song), the line between poetry and music can be kind of blurred, so you could also expand to types of verse which are generally not considered poetry. As a random example, why not Noh?

Just some random ideas for you.
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MorkTheFiddle
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Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek, aiming for mastery by 2424. Studying a bit of Latin and Japanese. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
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Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:31 am

devilyoudont wrote:
MorkTheFiddle wrote: :?: Japanese poetry does include works longer than haiku or tanka. If anyone reading this has a suggestion, please let me know.


Japanese poetry is almost uniformly short, and even so called long forms like choka still seem short to me (in addition to completely falling out of fashion literally 1000 years ago)

Longer works are almost always a mixture of poetry and prose. On one side of the spectrum, you have works like Tale of Genji and Kagero Nikki which are generally a prose narrative which nevertheless contain a lot of poetry. On another side of the spectrum you have "uta monogatari" works such as Tales of Ise which are more or less loose collections of poetry which suggest themes or narratives connected by small amounts of prose which may or may not actually be part of the suggested narrative.

As the name "uta monogatari" suggests (uta = song), the line between poetry and music can be kind of blurred, so you could also expand to types of verse which are generally not considered poetry. As a random example, why not Noh?

Just some random ideas for you.

Thank you for writing this explanation and giving these suggestions. I borrowed The Penguin Book of Japanese Verse from the library this morning. I will read through it keeping in mind what you have said about poetry. Skimming through the table of contents, I don't see any extracts from Noh, so I' ll do some more reading up on that, since I know next to nothing about it. Wikipedia has an entry for Kagerō Nikki (蜻蛉日記, The Mayfly Diary). Nor have I forgotten the earlier suggestion about Zen works, and The Penguin Book of Japanese Verse should give me a couple of ideas, too, though at first I am going to stick with haiku. By now I have almost learned the kanji for frog. :) My Japanese literay library consists of two books of tranlsated poetry. One I have had for ages and ages and is called The Essential Haiku: Versions of Bashō, Buson, & Issa (New York, 1994, edited and translated by Robert Hass). The other book of poetry is Haiku: Japanese Art and Poetry (San Francisco 2010, edited by Judith Patt, Michiko Warkentyne and Barry Till, with calligraphy by Michiko Warkentyne). A brief book of only 80 pages with native ilustrations, the kanji of the poems, Romanji, and translations.
Overall, instead of saying I have a lot to learn, I have to say, I have everything to learn.
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IronMike
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Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby IronMike » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:21 am

MorkTheFiddle wrote:I'm also thinking of reviving my Old Norse, at least to the extent of re-reading "Hrafnkels saga freysgoða," a great story for any language. A passage I read in Medea today made me think of it. There is a convenient copy of it in E. V. Gordon's An Introduction to Old Norse, rev 2nd ed by A. R. Taylor (London 1974). Along with some other interesting bits of Old Norse lit.

I freaking love Gordon's book. Found it in a used book store many months ago for a great price. I read all the history stuff at the beginning, just haven't attacked the lessons yet.
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DaveAgain
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Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby DaveAgain » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:27 am

MorkTheFiddle wrote:On the Latin front, I have not got anywhere past the first sentence with Ovem Occidere Mimicam.
Have you ever read Boethius' Consolation of Philosophy?
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MorkTheFiddle
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Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek, aiming for mastery by 2424. Studying a bit of Latin and Japanese. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
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Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:34 pm

DaveAgain wrote:
MorkTheFiddle wrote:On the Latin front, I have not got anywhere past the first sentence with Ovem Occidere Mimicam.
Have you ever read Boethius' Consolation of Philosophy?
No, I have not read it. Thank you for the reminder. I'm making one of those lists, Books You have to read before you die. Consolation goes on it. :)
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