Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
User avatar
moonlyrics
Yellow Belt
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 10:04 pm
Languages: English (N)
x 94

Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby moonlyrics » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:06 pm

MorkTheFiddle wrote:
I am at a bottleneck or crossroads in my language learning. First of all, I am not a language-learner per se. I pursued Spanish, French, Old Norse (briefly), Latin and Ancient Greek because I love and want to read their literatures. Knowing the language is especially valuable for the best poetry. As for prose, well, I'll leave it at that. I debated between Mandarin and Japanese. Japanese won out because tones shied me off of Mandarin, and, far, far more important, Japanese literature seems to offer more to my taste than Chinese literature (though I confess to a lot of ignorance about both). Haiku alone, coupled with other Japanese poetry, attracts me more to Japanese.


if language focus would be japanese for poetry and literature, perhaps it would help to focus on a specific genre or era with multiple authors in that range? that way you get synergy from the different perspectives.

for example, dōgen zenji was a japanese priest who founded the sōtō school of zen buddhism in the 1200s. he was a prolific writer including poetry. then you could read comments about his work (positive or negative) from others. several students wrote about dōgen's teachings after his death. seen from different perspectives the language study might be more intriguing.
1 x

User avatar
MorkTheFiddle
Brown Belt
Posts: 1063
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:59 pm
Location: usa
Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek, aiming for mastery by 2424. Studying a bit of Latin and Japanese. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
x 1773

Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:23 pm

moonlyrics wrote:
MorkTheFiddle wrote:if language focus would be japanese for poetry and literature, perhaps it would help to focus on a specific genre or era with multiple authors in that range? that way you get synergy from the different perspectives.

for example, dōgen zenji was a japanese priest who founded the sōtō school of zen buddhism in the 1200s. he was a prolific writer including poetry. then you could read comments about his work (positive or negative) from others. several students wrote about dōgen's teachings after his death. seen from different perspectives the language study might be more intriguing.

This is a splendid suggestion. A guidepost in a land where I am a complete stranger. Thank you very much.
1 x
Tu sabes cuando sales pero no sabes cuando regresas.

User avatar
devilyoudont
Green Belt
Posts: 346
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:34 am
Location: Philadelphia
Languages: EN (N), EO (C), JA (B), KO (A), ES (a mess)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=8485
x 883

Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby devilyoudont » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:53 pm

I am aware that there is a free guide to classical Japanese at Imabi: http://www.imabi.net/classical.htm

I can't say much about its quality as I've never tried classical Japanese, but I can say that the modern Japanese resources available on this site are generally well regarded.

There maybe other people on the site (maybe vonPeterhof or Sizen) who may have even better resources for you, if this is where your interest lies.
3 x

User avatar
MorkTheFiddle
Brown Belt
Posts: 1063
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:59 pm
Location: usa
Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek, aiming for mastery by 2424. Studying a bit of Latin and Japanese. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
x 1773

Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:18 pm

devilyoudont wrote:I am aware that there is a free guide to classical Japanese at Imabi: http://www.imabi.net/classical.htm

I can't say much about its quality as I've never tried classical Japanese, but I can say that the modern Japanese resources available on this site are generally well regarded.

There maybe other people on the site (maybe vonPeterhof or Sizen) who may have even better resources for you, if this is where your interest lies.

Thanks for the reference. I will look into it right soon. One area that interests me is the world of The Tale of Genji and the women diarists of the time. But I am not pressing myself. Just to learn to read The Tale of Genji will probably take more time than I have.
3 x
Tu sabes cuando sales pero no sabes cuando regresas.

User avatar
moonlyrics
Yellow Belt
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 10:04 pm
Languages: English (N)
x 94

Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby moonlyrics » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:15 pm

MorkTheFiddle wrote:One area that interests me is the world of The Tale of Genji and the women diarists of the time. But I am not pressing myself. Just to learn to read The Tale of Genji will probably take more time than I have.


good guidepost about 200 years before dōgen in 1008. it would be very interesting to read about the formal court life of that era. your goal doesn't have to be to read the entire novel either. are you interested in the archaic language or the modern translation?

"The work is a unique depiction of the lifestyles of high courtiers during the Heian period, written in archaic language and a poetic and confusing style that make it unreadable to the average Japanese without dedicated study. It was not until the early 20th century that Genji was translated into modern Japanese, by the poet Akiko Yosano."
2 x

User avatar
MorkTheFiddle
Brown Belt
Posts: 1063
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:59 pm
Location: usa
Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek, aiming for mastery by 2424. Studying a bit of Latin and Japanese. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
x 1773

Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:13 pm

moonlyrics wrote:
MorkTheFiddle wrote:One area that interests me is the world of The Tale of Genji and the women diarists of the time. But I am not pressing myself. Just to learn to read The Tale of Genji will probably take more time than I have.


good guidepost about 200 years before dōgen in 1008. it would be very interesting to read about the formal court life of that era. your goal doesn't have to be to read the entire novel either. are you interested in the archaic language or the modern translation?

"The work is a unique depiction of the lifestyles of high courtiers during the Heian period, written in archaic language and a poetic and confusing style that make it unreadable to the average Japanese without dedicated study. It was not until the early 20th century that Genji was translated into modern Japanese, by the poet Akiko Yosano."

I am a bit past half way reading a Spanish translation of the novel.
To be honest, I had not thought about reading a modern translation. All things considered, that might be my best bet. So thanks for offering up the name of the modern translator. And you are right, I don't have to read the whole (huge) thing. ;)
1 x
Tu sabes cuando sales pero no sabes cuando regresas.

User avatar
MorkTheFiddle
Brown Belt
Posts: 1063
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:59 pm
Location: usa
Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek, aiming for mastery by 2424. Studying a bit of Latin and Japanese. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
x 1773

Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:57 pm

The mail brought two nice presents today. Fabulae Syrae by Luigi Miraglia was one. The subtitle tells it all: Graecorum Romanorumque Fabulae Ad Usum Discipulorum Latine Narratae. A running vocabulary in the margin gives definitions Orberg-like in Latin for some of the words. In large magazine-format, the text runs 136 pages and there are 45 fabulae. The Amazon has no Look Inside feature for the book, so here is Fabulae Syrae
on Barnes and Noble (but price the same). (Just to spread the wealth around. :) )

The other, or rather others, were three booklets by Clay and Yumi Boutwell:

Japanese Sentences Haiku, many by Basho but other poets are included
Learn Japanese with Stories Hikoichi, Volume 1
Learn Japanese with Stories Yuki Onna, Volume 6

Each has sound files, which are free to download (though requires a valid email address). Other books in the Japanese with Stories exist.

Finally, over the years I accumulated a number of pdf's of Latin readers, a dozen and a half or more. The last couple of days I have been looking them over and picking out what seems suitable. Same for Ancient Greek readers, though they as a class are inferior to the Latin stories. Perhaps the fault is mine in using inferior search words. :?
3 x
Tu sabes cuando sales pero no sabes cuando regresas.

User avatar
aravinda
Green Belt
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 12:27 pm
Location: Australia
Languages: Sinhala (native), English (advanced)
French (reading - intermediate?)
Studying: German
Studied/Dabbled in: Latin, Pāli, Sanskrit, Tamil, Ancient Greek, Italian, Hindi, Russian, Spanish (beginner-advanced beginner)
x 583

Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby aravinda » Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:26 am

MorkTheFiddle wrote:The mail brought two nice presents today. Fabulae Syrae by Luigi Miraglia was one. The subtitle tells it all: Graecorum Romanorumque Fabulae Ad Usum Discipulorum Latine Narratae. A running vocabulary in the margin gives definitions Orberg-like in Latin for some of the words. In large magazine-format, the text runs 136 pages and there are 45 fabulae. The Amazon has no Look Inside feature for the book, so here is Fabulae Syrae
on Barnes and Noble (but price the same). (Just to spread the wealth around. :) )
Hello, Mork, you can find commentaries written by Professor Dybicz for the stories in the book here. Maybe you don't need them at your level. It isn't complete and he is apparently not going to add anymore commentaries.
I'm unlikely to finish any more of the commentaries on this site, at least not in their present format. I have since become convinced of the Comprehensible Input theory of language learning and have put my efforts there. https://tcl.camws.org/sites/default/fil ... rick_0.pdf

P.S.
I thought the book had 50 fabulae.
2 x

User avatar
moonlyrics
Yellow Belt
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 10:04 pm
Languages: English (N)
x 94

Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby moonlyrics » Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:35 am

MorkTheFiddle wrote:I am a bit past half way reading a Spanish translation of the novel.


that sounds fun. good luck with your novel reading. as for latin and greek studies, they seem to be enjoyable for an english speaker. anniversary is coming up august 24th of pompeii's destruction/ preservation by mount vesuvius eruption in 79 C.E.

"Admiror, O paries, te non cecidisse, qui tot scriptorium taedia sustineas.”

“I wonder, O wall, that you have not yet collapsed, so many writers’ clichés do you bear.”

"This phrase seems to have been a popular one, as slightly different versions of it appear in multiple locations throughout Pompeii’s ruins."
1 x

User avatar
MorkTheFiddle
Brown Belt
Posts: 1063
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:59 pm
Location: usa
Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek, aiming for mastery by 2424. Studying a bit of Latin and Japanese. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
x 1773

Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:30 pm

aravinda wrote:Hello, Mork, you can find commentaries written by Professor Dybicz for the stories in the book here. Maybe you don't need them at your level. It isn't complete and he is apparently not going to add anymore commentaries.

Thanks for the reference. At the very least commentaries are interesting to look at.
aravinda wrote:P.S.
I thought the book had 50 fabulae.

Just doublechecked. There are 9 chapters with 5 stories each. :)
1 x
Tu sabes cuando sales pero no sabes cuando regresas.


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: gsbod and 2 guests