Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

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MorkTheFiddle
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Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek, aiming for mastery by 2424. Studying a bit of Latin and Japanese. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
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Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:04 am

For reasons that would require a discussion of politics, I dropped the second season of The Killing and moved on to the third season. The first two episodes went well enough. Each lasted the usual 57 minutes and I understood on average 65% of the dialogue. My total hours watching French series is now 43.7. Charting progress is growing tiresome, so I need to find out how to do the chart-graphs. I looked at the FAQ, but I did not see how to do it.
Thinking about what French series comes after The Killing, I went to a couple local used bookstores this morning. Neither had any dubbed French series I was looking for, but I got lucky and found a couple of domestic series that had French dubbed audio tracks in addition to English tracks. Finding them here saved me a few bucks and a few weeks of waiting.
2295 minutes = 38.25 and + 43.7 will be 81.95 total. Probably another 7 for the remainder of the 3rd season of The Killing. Maybe I'll go back to True Detective. I could try the season of Maigret I have and have seen with subs, or repeat some of the Un Village Français that I have seen with subs. I have all the seasons. But I prefer more dubbed series. I've got some time to research. Of course, I have to verify that the disks I bought today are okay, and that I can stomach The Wire (which the French called Sur écoute).
I've been working some on Cavesa's thoroughgoing Memrise course for French verbs, which I recommend for advanced beginners or intermediate learners. It makes for a good refresher for me, though I am not sure I have the stamina to finish it.
I also work on a "course" that I made for Plato vocabulary. I like Memrise for this kind of thing, dull though it is.
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Tu sabes cuando sales pero no sabes cuando regresas.

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MorkTheFiddle
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Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
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Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:15 am

Since last I wrote, I finished listening to the first season of That 70s Show dubbed in French, a few chapters in La Noche de las Medusas and a few chapters in Book 9 of Herodotus' Histories.
Growing skeptical that I was comprehending much of the French, before I watched the last episode of the first season of That 70s Show I watched the episode in the original English, then the French version. Even with the English version under my belt, large chunks of the French version escaped me. I knew that if I listened to the French a dozen times, I would never catch what was being said. I decided to take a few days off to let the French percolate through my brain. Meanwhile, I looked for something perhaps a bit more comprehensible.
To my surprise, I discovered some Mexican soaps that had been dubbed into French (why?): Amour Ocean, Première Dame, Teresa, Frijolito (Amarte Asi), Daniella, and Rubi. I have so far watched only one episode, the first of Amour Ocean, and I found it far easier to understand than That 70s Show. I have watched so far about 53 hours of dubbed French. Did that help with Amour Ocean? Probably. A lot? Can't say.
The litmus test for me is always going to be Hélène et les garçons from the 1990s or so. For all practical purposes, in my mind at least, it is the French Friends with the same level of acting (fair to good), script sophistication (palatable), and humor (amusing, if not laugh-out-loud). If I can understand its shows, I'll consider my self solidly planted. My comprehension of a test episode was hardly terrific, but I could tell a difference from previous watchings.
In addition to the Mexican telenovelas, I looked into Librivox audio and texts. The plays of Georges Feydeau look promising. They are funny, though the dialogue for the most part does not go as fast as TV/Movie dialogue.
Before I return to That 70s Show, I am going to read and listen to one of Feydeau's plays a couple of times, and one each of the telenovelas to see whether there is at least one that is half-way bearable. At least the beginning episode of Amour Ocean was not fixated on drugs.
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DaveAgain
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Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby DaveAgain » Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:14 am

MorkTheFiddle wrote:In addition to the Mexican telenovelas, I looked into Librivox audio and texts. The plays of Georges Feydeau look promising. They are funny, though the dialogue for the most part does not go as fast as TV/Movie dialogue.
Before I return to That 70s Show, I am going to read and listen to one of Feydeau's plays a couple of times, and one each of the telenovelas to see whether there is at least one that is half-way bearable. At least the beginning episode of Amour Ocean was not fixated on drugs.
The Feydeau plays seem to be quite popular, there are a number of videos of amateur and professional performances online.
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Lawyer&Mom
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Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby Lawyer&Mom » Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:22 pm

I did a similar extensive listening project. I started with noir mystery, because that’s what I typically enjoy, but my understanding was mediocre. Too many speeches about events that occurred off screen. (The killer’s tragic childhood, what really happened in the woods, etc.) I’ve had much better luck once I switched to ER. The majority of the action happens right in front of you. Doctors do nothing but talk talk talk to their patients and each other. Plus ER was hugely popular, I came in with a basic knowledge of the characters and the major plot points.

But more importantly, as someone with 250+ hours of extensive watching, your comprehension really does improve. And it’s just so easy. Keep watching!
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MorkTheFiddle
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Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
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Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:57 am

DaveAgain wrote:
MorkTheFiddle wrote:In addition to the Mexican telenovelas, I looked into Librivox audio and texts. The plays of Georges Feydeau look promising. They are funny, though the dialogue for the most part does not go as fast as TV/Movie dialogue.
Before I return to That 70s Show, I am going to read and listen to one of Feydeau's plays a couple of times, and one each of the telenovelas to see whether there is at least one that is half-way bearable. At least the beginning episode of Amour Ocean was not fixated on drugs.
The Feydeau plays seem to be quite popular, there are a number of videos of amateur and professional performances online.

Thanks for stopping by again. I think you were the one who first put me on to Feydeau.
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Tu sabes cuando sales pero no sabes cuando regresas.

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MorkTheFiddle
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Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
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Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:11 am

Lawyer&Mom wrote:I did a similar extensive listening project. I started with noir mystery, because that’s what I typically enjoy, but my understanding was mediocre. Too many speeches about events that occurred off screen. (The killer’s tragic childhood, what really happened in the woods, etc.) I’ve had much better luck once I switched to ER. The majority of the action happens right in front of you. Doctors do nothing but talk talk talk to their patients and each other. Plus ER was hugely popular, I came in with a basic knowledge of the characters and the major plot points.

But more importantly, as someone with 250+ hours of extensive watching, your comprehension really does improve. And it’s just so easy. Keep watching!

Thanks for stopping by. And thank you as well for the tip about ER. Though I never watched it even once when it aired, you make a good point about all the talking that has to go on. And you make a good point, too, about noir that I had never thought about. I do intend to return to That 70s Show (which I like better in French than in English, for some odd reason.) My brain just needed a little rest.
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MorkTheFiddle
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Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
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Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:23 am

I have finished Book 9 of Herodotus' Histories, a few more chapters of La Noche de las Medusas (276/310) and the second and third seasons of French-dubbed That 70s Show.
I am debating what to read next in Ancient Greek. Possibly Book 8 of Herodotus or Book 2 of Thucydides.
A couple of rather long gaps of time have intervened in reading La Noche de las Medusas, which is causing my interest to sag because it is a detective story requiring perhaps a more dedicated effort. But it is interesting enough that I am sure I will finish it.
I am now watching 8 shows a day of That 70s Show, and I am finding that a bit of a drag. But I have watched 76.8 hours of French-dubbed TV since March 6, so there is only 9 more days to go to reach 100, which was my goal. I tried slipping in light comedy from real French TV, but it was unproductive, so I stopped after 6 or 7 22-minute episodes. A couple of times I had to remind my brain that the "gobblydegook" it was hearing was French and that it actually knows French. I also notice that if I un expectedly hear a snippet of French or Spanish, I understand it. But when I focus in intently on what follows, understanding can slip away from me. Drive-by listening? Does a state of complete relaxation help listening comprehension? And if so, how does one induce complete relaxation?
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jeff_lindqvist
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Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:45 pm

MorkTheFiddle wrote:Does a state of complete relaxation help listening comprehension? And if so, how does one induce complete relaxation?


Complete relaxation while listening to target langugage audio makes me fall asleep. It works if I'm busy with something else, say playing guitar/taking a walk/solving the Rubik's cube/(even doing scriptorium in another language).
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Beli Tsar
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Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby Beli Tsar » Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:10 pm

MorkTheFiddle wrote:I
I am debating what to read next in Ancient Greek. Possibly Book 8 of Herodotus or Book 2 of Thucydides.

Thucydides? Either you are very good at Ancient Greek, or very tough-minded. Isn't Pericles' speech in Thucydides II one of the hardest bits of Ancient Greek out there?
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MorkTheFiddle
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Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
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Re: Mork the Fiddle's 2019 Log

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:20 am

Thanks to both for your comments.
jeff_lindqvist wrote:
MorkTheFiddle wrote:Does a state of complete relaxation help listening comprehension? And if so, how does one induce complete relaxation?


Complete relaxation while listening to target langugage audio makes me fall asleep. It works if I'm busy with something else, say playing guitar/taking a walk/solving the Rubik's cube/(even doing scriptorium in another language).

Some years ago during a failed attempt to learn guitar fingerpicking, I worked on an "easy" arrangement by Roger Evans of "Banks of the Ohio." The arrangement is simple enough, with only one really tricky part, which I practiced and practiced and practiced. I got nowhere with it. Then one day I was watching a rerun of a favorite TV show and practicing at the same time. I got to "Banks of the Ohio" in my routine and without thinking about it, I played the whole thing through without a hitch. Life intervened shortly thereafter and I had to give up practicing, but I have often wondered if there was a mechanism in my brain that interfered with the practice and if so whether the part of my brain watching the TV show canceled the part of my brain that was interfering with the finger-picking.

Beli Tsar wrote:
MorkTheFiddle wrote:I
I am debating what to read next in Ancient Greek. Possibly Book 8 of Herodotus or Book 2 of Thucydides.

Thucydides? Either you are very good at Ancient Greek, or very tough-minded. Isn't Pericles' speech in Thucydides II one of the hardest bits of Ancient Greek out there?

I am not very good at Ancient Greek, I can tell you that for free. Although some parts of Thucydides are relatively easy, other parts constitute some of the most challenging Ancient Greek that exists. Speeches are among the difficult parts, including, as you say, the funeral oration of Pericles. But reading him is like most thing in languages, putting your head down and slogging through. Especially when there is good help available. The Cambridge Green and Yellow Series publishes a commentary on Book II by J. S. Rusten, which I find very helpful, even indispensible. There is also a useful older edition by E. C. Marchant. There is also a long and fruitful thread by the folks at Textkit (some of whom ARE very good at Ancient Greek) about Thucydides. I should add that I have already read Pericles' speech, in an anthology, without complete comprehension.
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