Inst HSK6 completion and beyond

[Inst]

So, here's my background. As I've mentioned before, I'm a heritage learner of Chinese, who has reasonable spoken language ability, sufficient to get around. I've been doing this on and off for quite some time (12 years since the beginning of serious formal training), often with overambitious targets, but this time, I'm nearly past the hill.

The biggest inspiration for me was the BCLU Accelerated Chinese program, of which I unfortunately dropped out 12 years past, but it for me was fascinating insofar as it showed how it would be possible to pick up even a very hard language in a very short period of time; i.e, the promise was that over the equivalent of 32 credits, students would be bootstrapped to the equivalent of the modern HSK5.

Since then, I've passed the HSK 3, 4, and 5, and I'm aiming to take the HSK 6 within the next half year. But before I do so, I intend to do overkill.

The present time schedule is as follows:

By 00:00 February 11, -5 GMT, I will have parsed all the texts in the official Hanban textbooks for the HSK. Think of it as pre-learning, even if I almost immediately forget the words, I will have "learned" the words once so that, first, I create the illusion of progress (motivation), and second, all further learning becomes relearning. This includes handwriting, so this will take even longer.
By 00:00 February 21, -5 GMT, I will have done a second passthrough aimed at creating long-term retention over words and grammatical material. I hope, although at the present rate this seems more dubious, that I will have also finished all the workbook exercises.
By 00:00 March 1st, -5 GMT, I will have consolidated enough of the material that I will be able to take a break, go through native material that I've amassed, including 读书, the Mainland Chinese equivalent of the New Yorker, as well as 聊斋志异, of which Borges and Kafka were purportedly fond.

Future targets are:

-Go through the material I learned before with a 字典, character dictionary, as well as a 词典, a word dictionary.
-Pump through the 通用规范汉字表, the government mandated list of "commonly" used Chinese characters. Target is at least 3500, although 5000 or even the full list would be appreciated.
-Pump through frequency lists for Chinese up to at least 8000-10000 words, and maybe even up to 20,000 words.
-Start a third language. I think Chinese learners are notorious for wanting to be polyglots; Japanese learners I think often end up stalling too often before completion, as well as realizing how big the lexicon is to obtain real levels of Japanese fluency, but Chinese learners often think: hey, Chinese was a major pain, nothing else can be as hard as this, can it? (Protip: Japanese and Korean are reputedly harder).

My current progress report is:

-Up to 60% of the HSK6 textbook, implying that I have 800 characters left to parse, although I've been stalled due to lack of retention on existing words. I am only up to 55% of the HSK6 textbook if grammatical points and texts are included.

My advantages in this task are:

-Since Chinese is my first language, I don't have a major problem with tones. I do have difficulty distinguishing -in and -ing phonemes, and unfortunately, at this stage, tones parse into my head as morphemes instead of the tonal contour.
-I am ambiguously employed (don't ask) so I have a lot of time. I estimate the availability of 12 hours a day, besides being able to eat, sleep, and take care of my cats.

[Inst]

Excursion: I guess I was looking for web-commenting (and I'm logging out after this!) on the Chinese claims that they can pick up Japanese in 2 years at 2 hours a day. So I found this really nice comment on Baidu Zhidao, something similar to Quora. I am posting it now (in the original language) and I am going to do my best stab at translation, although there's a few characters I don't understand properly.

Edit: it turns out I'm actually missing a lot of the grammar, and not retaining enough of the grammatical meaning. If you want a better translation, just push it through Google Translate, unfortunately. But it's been a fun exercise:

https://zhidao.baidu.com/question/20786 ... 58868.html


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学日语需要多长时间？

How long does it take to pick up Japanese?

wo是幸运的ren
2018-09-17

这可能是我被问得最多的问题。 虽然每个人的学习方法，教材，进度都不一样。 但我可以给出一个大致的时间：2年。

This perhaps is the question I'm asked the most. Even though everyone has different learning methods, teaching materials and schedules, I will give you an approximate time: 2 years.

首先，我们要定义“学会”的概念。 通常都以能交流作为学会的标准。以这样的标准，我认为普通人需要2年时间才能“学会”日语。看到这个答案后大多数人的第一反应是“这么长时间！”。确实，2年是700多天，比较长。日语不像英语那么容易上手，即便全球通用的英语学2年后如果能交流也很不错了。或许有人认为英语难，但说英语的人最多，说明相对容易。如果你想学习日语可以来这个Q群，首先是478，中间是932，最后是026，里面可以学习和交流，也有资料可以下载。

First, we must define what it means to learn Japanese. Often, it refers to the ability to communicate as the objective. For this target, I consider that the average person requires 2 years time to "learn" Japanese. The majority of people, after seeing this response, would have as their first reaction: "That's way too long!" In reality, 2 years is 700 days and it's somewhat long. Japanese isn't as easy to become proficient in as English, even if being able to converse in English, a global language, after 2 years is also a good result. Perhaps some people think that English is difficult, but English speakers are the most numerous, showing that it is actually easy. If you want to learn Japanese, consider joining my Q group [QQ? That's an chat service a la Whatsapp, but actually closer to ICQ]. [I can't make sense of the next section, is the Q number being blocked-up to evade spam filters?]. You can learn and converse in there, and also download learning materials.

假如你被我的2年吓跑了，那么你可能连三个月都坚持不了。 我不是吓唬大家，很多人确实坚持不了三个月。所以，你如果能接受2年，以这样的心态面对日语学习，而不是急功近利，那么你的学习之路反而会更加顺利。 对于外语学习，除了兴趣，最重要的就是心态和学习动机。 在你动摇的时候，学习动机可能是唯一的动力。

If you've been scared away by my 2 years estimate, you probably wouldn't be able to hold out for even 3 months. I'm not trying to scare everyone, many people can't hold on for 3 months. Therefore, if you can bear two years, this type of attitude towards Japanese studies, and don't seek quick success, then this learning route will deliver more success. Regarding foreign language learning, outside of interest, the most important factors are attitude and opportunities for learning. When you waver, learning opportunties are your only motivation.

对我来说，日语可以说是母语。 但在我的记忆中，大概学了10年之后，也就是到现在才能算精通。 所以，2年不是估计长了，而是相对保守的估计。

Regarding myself, Japanese can be said to be my mother tongue. However, as I remember it, it took me 10 years of learning before I could be considered as proficient. Therefore, 2 years isn't a long estimate, and is a relatively conservative estimate.

写本文并不是为了打击初学者。 考虑到相当一部分人希望尽快“掌握”日语，希望现学现用。 我也可以肯定地告诉你， 3个月也是可以掌握相当多的知识。 在这里提供一个比较可靠的学习计划:
(该计划适合工作中需要用到日语，必须在最短的时间内入门的人)
第一个月: 掌握发音 达标标准: 能大致读下来一小段文字就行。
第二个月: 掌握简单的语法（最最常见的语法）
达标标准: 10～20个基本语法，了解日语语法的结构
第三个月: 猛攻日常用语/按需学习
达标标准: 前面的2个月其实就是为了第三个月学习口语时可以拼读和理解句子准备的。 这时候就得见人就说了。

This piece isn't to attack beginners. Consider how many people want to quickly "grasp" Japanese, hoping for quick learning and quick use. I can definitely tell you, in 3 months you can definitely learn a lot. Here, I can suggest a learning plan:
(This plan is for people seeking Japanese for professional use, those who need to "enter the door" in the briefest time)
First Month: Grasp pronunciation. Goal: Being able to read small pieces is enough.
Second Month: Grasp basic grammar (the most commonly encountered grammar).
Goal: 10-20 basic grammars, understand Japanese grammar's structure.
Third Month: Fiercely attack daily speech , required learning.
Goal: The first two months is really to prepare for the third month's learning of spoken language and for phonetic reading. It's only in the 3rd month when you can begin talking to people.

至于准备打持久战的日语爱好者，希望您能系统学习，稳扎稳打。 看似效率不如上面的急功近利型，但基础牢固，只要坚持1年就会看到曙光--远远超过预期的目标。

As learners preparing for a longer battle, I hope you learn methodically and steadily. If it seems your efficacy isn't as good as the above, your fundamentals will be firmer and you'd only need to hold out for one year and you'd reach "twilight", far exceeding your expected goals.

很多人可能对3个月入门感兴趣，毕竟2年太长。时下这类培训还是比较多的，可以在当地寻找，但建议初学者不要参加1～2个月的短期培训。这类短期培训只能说是教完发音就结束了。

Many people will be interested in the 3 month plan, after all, 2 years is too long. These types of training problems are pretty numerous, you can find them locally. But I ask that beginners not join 1-2 month short-term training programs. These programs only teach pronunciation before they finish.

烨刃
2016-09-29
这些只是个大概，毕竟每个人的学习能力和时间及环境不同。
This is just an approximation, in reality everyone's learning ability, time, and environment is different.

1天充分利用的2小时以上，一般人1年半到2年达到N1水平。

With around two hours a day, a normal person can achieve JLPT N1 in 18-24 months.

如果要求像日本人一样跟人本人对话，交流，3年以上。

If you want to be able to speak like the Japanese in conversation and communications, you'll need more than 3 years.

如果是想听懂动画，电视在说什么有专项训练的话1年，没有的话3年左右，动画里的词有很多都是固定那几个，专门训练会很快。

If you want to be able to understand anime or TV, you have specialized programs that take 1 year, but without them, it's about 3 years. Anime has a lot of fixed vocabulary [i.e, small lexicon], if you learn specifically that, it'll be very fast.

想玩游戏或看懂书之类的有心的话到达N3水平（半年左右）就可以开始边查变看了。95%以上不查词的程度约2年。

If you want to play games, manga, or that kind of thing, getting to N3 (half a year or so) will allow you to check the dictionary and watch at the same time. To reach 95% of words without needing to look words up you'd need about 2 years.

[Inst]

Thinking about aborting the original plan right now. The entire time, I've been considering the issues with retention and whether it makes more sense to properly review previous content. I'm aware that it purportedly takes 7 exposures for someone to consolidate a word into passive memory, so while I'm absolutely intent on finishing this project, the way I go about it might vary, and the timetables, unfortunately, might be delayed.

I'm going on vacation to Alaska (I like cold weather, but it's only 27 degrees (or slightly below 0 in Celsius) right now in Anchorage!) on the 15th. Let's see how far I can get before I leave.

[Inst]

Jeez. I decided to do a "mission accomplished" thing, given that I was so distracted I couldn't focus. I just ended up copying (previewing) the vocabulary Sinograms, albeit without the definitions, on the remaining sections of the second part of the HSK 6 textbook. I only have 3 lessons left to copy, but I realize the most important thing right now is to focus on reviewing old material and put myself in a position where I can stride confidently into the second section of the HSK 6 textbook.

Hopefully I'll wake up with enough time to finish the last 4 lesson sections before midnight. It is a failure, but not a total one.

[Inst]

Ugh, it was getting too close to the point where if I fell asleep, I'd get up past midnight, so I just rushed it and I'm "done" with "previewing" HSK 6.

To be clear, I'm not actually copying the text, just the vocabulary. Text copying was actually part of some courses curricula, as well as memorizing texts just to repeat them. I'm sure it'd be of help, especially in terms of developing the memory.

But, there's a politician strolling down an aircraft carrier (航母) now.

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As for the next targets, I think the immediate target will be to finish reviewing other parts of the textbooks. I have HSK 1 and 2 reviewed, although another review might be helpful. Half of 3 is done, HSK 4 need to be done, and 5 and the first part of 6 need to be done. There's also the workbook sections for HSK 4 that might need to be done, alongside 5, 6.

The primary targets for tomorrow should be reviewing the first 4 lessons of HSK 6 (40 lessons) to practice consolidation. at the beginning of HSK 6. Then I want to start reviewing HSK 5 properly this time, starting from lesson 36/36, as well as finish up HSK 3 review and start HSK 4 review.

[Inst]

Well, I've decided to take a break, at least until I get to go on "vacation". I need to clean the cat's room, but in the meantime, my short-term goals are:

-Get HSK 3 textbooks properly reviewed.
-Get HSK 4 upper textbook properly reviewed, and finish the workbooks.

The target time is by the end of February 15th.

One thing I think is a good idea when you "stall" or lose interest, is to just skip ahead. What I did was to download the BLCU Chinese word frequency list, move it into an Excel spreadsheet, and begin appending definitions, starting at the 10,000th entry.

I think this is a good technique, say, if your French or German isn't coming along, you skip ahead to words at 20,000th frequency list and start learning them. The words quite likely have no good English equivalent, or have an obscure English analogue.

The best thing is, this doesn't impede learning. By the time you get up to the material, you'll have mostly forgotten, also known as pre-learned, the material.

[Inst]

Just an update to let you guys know I'm still alive.

On the trip, I was about to review HSK 3 and 4, and I got past the workbook on HSK 4 (upper).

Unfortunately, my car rental company decided to screw me over heavily after an accident (I've already found a lawyer), and that's been a major distraction.

I think I'll take it a bit more slowly; as a result I've become depressed and can't focus fully on this task.

[Inst]

The important thing is focusing on making progress, if not daily, not weekly. Likewise, being able to deal with despair (i.e, sense of stalling, not learning) is crucial. Stuff has to get done, even if progress feels glacial.

I've also made the decision to quit smoking lately, which makes my life harder. When you smoke, you're actually taking stimulants, and if you ever feel bad, you just chainsmoke. Without this lethal chemical resort, it is harder to keep focused.

But as of late, I've copied the HSK 5 upper word list, several times, and I am proceeding to get through the HSK 5 upper workbook, although I haven't finished the HSK 4 lower (part 2) workbook yet, and intend to go through the HSK 6 upper workbook before I finish the HSK 5 lower workbook.

Another thing is not to focus too much on methods. I have a plan, I have a goal, I have some degree of progress, even if it's not at the sequence I desire. It's very tempting to waste time researching methods instead, but I am, at worst, 2 months away from reaching my HSK 6 goal. Best to finish up here instead, and if I need better methods, apply the better methods on other languages.

[Inst]

Once again, I'm complaining about slow progress. What I am now trying to do each day is, to copy down (encounter) ~400 new words a day in the HSK 6 area, review up to a stack of 2800 words for consolidation purposes, as well as do focused copying / review of HSK 5 words until I can finish the set. I haven't gotten the time needed to do the workbook exercises for HSK 5 yet, or even do the spread HSK 6, but I'll be happy provided I can preview HSK 6 words properly.

[Inst]

Still very depressed. Legal issue is distracting me a lot, but I managed to read some of the texts in the HSK 6 textbook that I haven't been able to struggle through before.

I like the culture the Hanban is putting out with their official textbooks. The one I just finished discussed how someone who truly loved reading managed to trap fireflies in order to use them as a lamp so he could continue to read at night.

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Before you ask, no one was hurt, I skidded on the roads. The problem is the accusation the car rental company is making.