zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

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zenmonkey
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Re: Where the monkey scrapes by the skin of his teeth

Postby zenmonkey » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:04 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:Sorry about the late recognition Mr Zen... I thought I must've missed it (the posting of results), and I was nearly going to PM you. Congratulations !!! Welcome fellow B2 personium-dude-overlord, to the C1 path, albeit in another language ;) Awesome work!


Many thanks, PM! May we both succeed (on a not too long path) of C1ness!
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Please feel free to correct me in any language, critique my posts, challenge my thoughts.
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zenmonkey
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Tibetan : slowness of opacity

Postby zenmonkey » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:54 pm

Ah, the slowness of an opaque language - I am just still learning the alphabet after several lessons. Add tone and aspiration to each letter and it is like trying to juggle a ball on your nose on a unicycle.

My first sentence:
འདི༌ག་རེ་རེད།
I think it means "what is that?" And, of course, to write it you can use a transcription method (which is pretty neat) - you just need to write using the Wylie keyboard:

Code: Select all

a'di ga re re/*
*and my keyboard is German so I have to use my American overlay...

But of course it is not pronounced anything like that. That would be too easy.
First letter here is silent. Then that ད (da) is a [tha] (an aspirated / low tone) but the diacritic དེ makes it a thi istead of tha ... anyway... after a struggle what should come out of your mouth is

/thi kha re re'/

or maybe

/thi ga re re'/

And it takes forever to get there but it is still pretty magical.
This post is a marker so that months from now I can look back and see how far I've gotten ... or not :lol:.
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Please feel free to correct me in any language, critique my posts, challenge my thoughts.
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zenmonkey
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Paying the price of ignoring a wise man

Postby zenmonkey » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:37 pm

From our discussion on the native material study, smallwhite smartly wrote:
smallwhite wrote:Iguanamon has always warned us to keep the number of languages simultaneously learned down to a minimum. There's a price to pay for ignoring advice from a wise man.


And this has been on my mind a bit. I think she struck a cord. She's right of course. And I have to look at my language learning method and consider that it may impact me negatively to hold onto too many languages at times. Of course, I know that when I do that I often end up dropping one for a while. And that's fine because often I am not 'serenading the lady to take her home' but just 'dancing a waltz to pass the evening together'.
So it was with Mandarin, Arabic or even Italian. We've met become slightly familiar but remain friendly enough that we might visit in the future but for now, not many a dance in the near future. That's fine.

Other languages, I really want to achieve something and the stacking of study is hampering depth. My German drive to C1 is basically not going places if I'm not spending the time and giving in to my three other active languages. I can get by with slow advances from everyday exposure, if I don't have a goal but I really do need to get that going.

But the cross-over that I am seeing is that it takes me a few minutes now to activate and be sure that I am in Tibetan or Hebrew mode. Something that wasn't there a few weeks back - one opaque language meant I was all in the pit instantly - now it's two pits and it takes a minute to see which one I'm in.

Speaking of pits - I am finding learning the Tibetan alphabet to be a completely different set of challenges than Hebrew and in interesting ways. In Tibetan the vowels are marked ས་སོ་སི་སེ་ is sa, so, si, se, and quite easy to identify as all you need to do is write "sa, so, si, se" with the Wylie converter on. Well, sa may become sé depending on the suffix, etc. but the vowels are relatively easier than Hebrew where ס סו סא סי סע have a series of rules that you need to experience to figure out the unmarked vowels and the sounds that may or may not be produced. On the other hand, the consonants tend to be a bit easier to hear in Hebrew and to produce - no need to worry about tone, aspiration and vowel length. Two writing systems that I'm attacking at the same time in one and no way am I going to approach Tibetan handwriting for a long time ...

As Tasha Mannox writes...

There are several different forms of the Umeh class of scripts, when learning Umeh there is a specific chronological order, from the more uniformed constructive forms called Tsugring ཚུགས་རིང། meaning long form and Tsugtung ཚུགས་ཐུང་། meaning short form, to the more cursive styles གཤར་མ། of which there is the every-day writing styles of Khyug dri འཁྱུག་བྲིས། meaning nimble writing and Kyug dri རྒྱུགས་བྲིས། meaning quick writing.
There are other intermediate script styles བར་བྲིས། such as Tsugmakhyug ཚུག་མ་འཁྱུག། a sub style between Tsugtung and Khyug yig. Petsug དཔེ་ཚུགས། often used for hand-written texts and books, of which is traditionally associated with different regions of Tibet, such as the Khamyig ཁམས་ཡིག། a script style referring to the Eastern Provence called Kham.
For the more artistic form of calligraphy Drutsa འབྲུ་ཚ། is used, this script style is particularly flamboyant and cursive in style, traditionally used for official documents and titles.


Enough complexity that I'll stick to Uchen even if Umeh is what what is used in handwriting more often. Gotta pick my battles.

Which brings be back - too little diversity and I get bored, too much and I'm sure to suffer from it. so in the end it is a question of awareness and focus. Actively knowing I could be more focused but willing to pay the price of a little (or a lot, in the eyes of some) of diversity versus the depth of focus.

Back to my studies! (And Hebrew, Portuguese and Tibetan are going nicely, only German is sort of standing still.)
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Please feel free to correct me in any language, critique my posts, challenge my thoughts.
I am inconsistency incarnate.
Go study! Publisher of Syriac, Aramaic, Hebrew alphabet apps at http://alphabetsnow.zyntx.com

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Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby vogeltje » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:20 pm

zenmonkey wrote:
vogeltje wrote:Hola eugenio : ¿qué tal?

hace muy buen tiempo aquí - estoy sentada en el jardín. quizás haga el mismo en Francia. el agosto o setiembre que viene vamos a Belgica una semana. viajamos siempre con el coche y son unos quinientos kilómetros.


HOLA!! El tiempo estuvo casi perfecto este fin de semana - bueno menos los momentos de lluvia :lol: Disfruta de tu semana de vacaciones!






jaja. :) a las flores las gusta la lluvia.

Gracias. tengo ganas de volver - una semana no es mucho pero mejor que nada.
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-w- I am Jar-ptitsa and my Hawaiian name is ʻā ʻaia. Please correct my mistakes in all the languages. Thank you very much.
: 1 / 50 Spanish grammar
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Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby vogeltje » Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:24 am

I hope that I didn't kill your log. :(

We were in Belgium and also one day in the Netherlands (Maastricht). The weather was so bad, always rain, and it seemed a bit sad, slow and poor in comparison with London, I mean Wallonia not Maastricht, but it rained in Maastricht as well.

That was my multilingual adventure haha. It's incredible that your country seems different after you have lived in a different country.
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-w- I am Jar-ptitsa and my Hawaiian name is ʻā ʻaia. Please correct my mistakes in all the languages. Thank you very much.
: 1 / 50 Spanish grammar
: 5 / 50 Spanish vocabulary

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zenmonkey
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Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby zenmonkey » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:58 pm

vogeltje wrote:I hope that I didn't kill your log. :(

We were in Belgium and also one day in the Netherlands (Maastricht). The weather was so bad, always rain, and it seemed a bit sad, slow and poor in comparison with London, I mean Wallonia not Maastricht, but it rained in Maastricht as well.

That was my multilingual adventure haha. It's incredible that your country seems different after you have lived in a different country.


You did not! :D

I was away ... doing things.

Took my four daughters to Mexico for August (before the quakes) to visit my brother and my different extended family. It was intense. And yes, it seems so different to go back.

It's a little like finding old ice cream in you parent's fridge. It seems familiar, you're wary of how it might taste, how long things have just been sitting there? And there you are - still trying to get a spoonful of the old experience, scrapping out what you can. Or maybe I am abusing the imagery because I really can't find what it is like. But there is both the joyful remembrance of the places and the taste that it's a bit old, a bit stale and it doesn't really taste like you thought it would. And you put it back in the freezer, thinking you might grab some later but forget about it, then.

But Mexico was great, I really enjoyed myself - I'm now taking care of the girl's double nationality so they can go back when they want. Because for them, there is a lot of romantic nostalgia of that old ice cream. And I want to go back a bit sooner, maybe next year.

While there I attended a conference on Yiddish, (a little Ladino) and Hebrew. And I have a Yiddish learning app in the works as a project with my aunt. Well, maybe. I was deeply disappointed by the lack of material for nahuatl and other indigenous languages in the local bookstores when I searched - I really only found a (quality) dictionary. It will have to wait.

Came back to Germany - and I got lost in work, project and more travel. I have continued my studies in German, Hebrew and Tibetan but Portuguese fell to the side for this period - so did my participation in the rdearman's study.

And last week we were in back in Vienna, Bratislava and Budapest. Too short a visit but some nice panoramas of these cities.

Language wise, I'm only going to note that Tibetan is moving nicely and I am starting to read the Heart Sutra. Now this isn't a religious reading on my part, but a reading exercise and I doubt anyone will find enlightenment out of my pronunciation but it is exciting to be able to access the texts of a language - this is only, at this point, the ability to read the words and pronounce them. I am far away, still, from the grammar and vocabulary necessary to form any understanding. But, for an approach to an opaque language, it is my long path around - and I sometimes do wonder if I am getting anywhere as I certainly can't yet hold the most basic of conversations. I am a monkey making noises.

But all is not dark.

བཀྲ་ཤིས་བདེ་ལེགས།
ṭāshi-te̲le' - hello
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Please feel free to correct me in any language, critique my posts, challenge my thoughts.
I am inconsistency incarnate.
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zenmonkey
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Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby zenmonkey » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:34 am

And specifically about the study - I'm sorry about dropping out of it. I felt particularly poorly about it, having put in a lot of energy and, well, not carrying through. Life and time got in the way and Portuguese was the first thing that got dropped ... then it made little sense to track...

Actually, I think the constraint of only focusing on native material (while traveling) was a big barrier for me. I can easily transport my Assimil stuff, etc. but access to films while traveling (poor Internet, blocked access to Netflix) made that harder. Maybe that is a learning.

For the next two weeks, I'll see if I add Portuguese back to my study (and the practice of tracking) but I really want to focus energy on my other three.
0 x
Please feel free to correct me in any language, critique my posts, challenge my thoughts.
I am inconsistency incarnate.
Go study! Publisher of Syriac, Aramaic, Hebrew alphabet apps at http://alphabetsnow.zyntx.com

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vogeltje
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Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby vogeltje » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:34 pm

zenmonkey wrote:
vogeltje wrote:I hope that I didn't kill your log. :(

We were in Belgium and also one day in the Netherlands (Maastricht). The weather was so bad, always rain, and it seemed a bit sad, slow and poor in comparison with London, I mean Wallonia not Maastricht, but it rained in Maastricht as well.

That was my multilingual adventure haha. It's incredible that your country seems different after you have lived in a different country.


You did not! :D

I was away ... doing things.


But Mexico was great, I really enjoyed myself - I'm now taking care of the girl's double nationality so they can go back when they want. Because for them, there is a lot of romantic nostalgia of that old ice cream. And I want to go back a bit sooner, maybe next year.



Good, what a relief.

Wow, your daughters are luckiy that they will get double nationality with Mexico!!!

I would love to have double nationality wiht some countries. In England if you want the double nationality with your own one, you must live here 5 years, then pass 2 exams. one is the Life in the Uk, with some historical questions, and the other is a language test. We don't know exactly how long we will live in London, it's a couple of years, but about 2 more until 5. Then I don't know if I could pass those exams. You must get 75% or more in the life in the UK test!!!! I know about fish and chips, tea, etc but not about the 14th century history or the things in the test, here is an example:

Image

How can you know that if you aren't about 60 years old (or better, 100 years).


And this:

Image

I know Turing, and I wouldn't vote for the last one becuase the name is more like a country, but I think that the people guess the responses.

Image

great!! an easy question. This is relevant as well if you live in the country that you know which currecny haha :D so I would get some points, maybe 5%

I haven't seen the English langauge test. That would be ok I think, if I didn't get too nervous, but it would depend on the questions, if they ask you spoken or written, and the topic. The best plan is tht my twin does the exams for me because he's very clever hahahaha (but he's male, so they would know, unfortunately). My parents said that we don't have to do the exams, so I'm not worried about it.
have you done exams for residency in a country?
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-w- I am Jar-ptitsa and my Hawaiian name is ʻā ʻaia. Please correct my mistakes in all the languages. Thank you very much.
: 1 / 50 Spanish grammar
: 5 / 50 Spanish vocabulary

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zenmonkey
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Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby zenmonkey » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:45 pm

I've done the German Language exam for residency and will sit for the civics test later this year. I think there is a deck on Memrise with the full set of possible questions.

But since I am about 100 years old :) I could probably pass quite a few EU ones.

My girls won't need to pass a test since they are the offspring of a citizen.
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Please feel free to correct me in any language, critique my posts, challenge my thoughts.
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zenmonkey
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My grandmother's Spanish

Postby zenmonkey » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:42 pm

This might be a little reading (and cooking) exercise for someone. Here is a page from my grandmother's cookbook. You can tell that she had quite a well practiced penmanship. She was a painter and artist.

FullSizeRender-1.jpg
FullSizeRender-1.jpg (151.7 KiB) Viewed 68 times
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Please feel free to correct me in any language, critique my posts, challenge my thoughts.
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