Zac29's Spanish Platiquemos FSI log

[zac299]

Updates:

I figured having gone through platiquemos a full time would be the perfect opportunity to go over the advanced portion of Michel Thomas again. That way I could see things from a different and more in-depth perspective compared to the last time.

It's a good decision because it's hammering home some things that I simply didn't have the experience to notice or absorb a year ago when I first did the course.

For example, the question I asked on the previous page of this log, the screenshotted one from a friend saying "... quizas llore cuando te vea..." has now been cleared up completely and with a good explanation/way to think about the present subjunctive that I'm hoping will stick a bit better than FSI's lessons.

And that's exactly why I'm going through the advanced CDs again. I remember hitting on the past subjunctive, hubo, hubieron etc before, but it really meant nothing to me at the time. Now, I'm hoping the way Michel explains it will add another layer of understanding/perspective that'll help the concepts stick even more.

I've finished 2 of the 4 CDs so in next week's update I'll be able to say if the explanations and perspective shifts were worth going through the course again.

This last week I listened to 2h 25min of podcasts.

I'm up to ep 29 of La Reina and ep 35 of El Puntero.

Again no Gramatica de Uso but this week I'll definitely hit the books at least 1 time.

I'll leave a personal note for myself that my reading is starting to speed up. The same 10 pages of articles that was taking me 1 hour, now takes between 45 and 50 minutes. At least, the last few times I've sat down to read. My average look-ups per page is well down as well.

This week's favourite frase was; "Pero que tirada" when a friend told me she couldn't swim at one of the beautiful waterfalls she visited. And also, when telling a friend I'd started writing out pages of my spanish book by hand, I said "pues, no quiero jactarme pero ya habia empezado leer y escribir..." because jactar is such a cool word.

And that's about it for the last week


--- Running Totals ---

Podcast Listening: 120 h 55 min (End of week 32 since I started records)

Pages Read / Books read: 894 / 9 books

Missed Days (No study at all): 5

[zac299]

Updates:

I finished going over the advanced portion of Michel Thomas again and it was a very worthwhile decision.

For my own notes, the present subjunctive was dealt with on CD 1 and then CD 4 is when he dealt with the past subjunctive and also a lot of interesting ways of using haber.

This review has taken all the guess-work out of the subjunctive for me. By that, I mean I'm now confidently using it in messages and talking with friends. BUT - That's when I'm purposely trying to use it. I'm still in guessing-land on all of the perfect moments to actually and correctly use it. It's just that I can conjugate it with ease in all forms for all verbs now.

Now would be the perfect time to go back to these specific FSI units and really drill/consolidate all the the "subjunctive activation" phrases they taught us, like "ojala que...", "si...", "quiero que..." etc... But I just don't wanna right now.

This single review has meant I'm fine whenever I come across it now in the articles I'm reading and from the podcasts I'm listening to. So now I'm just going to focus on producing it as much as possible in both my messaging with friends and the speaking practice I get with friends as well.

Last week I listened to just 1 hour and 45 min of podcasts.

I'm up to ep 30 of La Reina and ep 37 of El Puntero.

There was no Gramatic de Uso last week but I'm going to do it today for sure.

I've almost finished the 2nd "ebook of articles" I put together. It'll be finished by my next update. It's interesting because by the end of the first 2 "sections" of articles, which were sourced from Iguanamon's 3 recommendations, as I said last week, my reading was up to 10 pages in about 45-50 minutes... But then the last stretch of this ebook has been from the Global Voices website and I'm now back up to taking about 55-57 minutes for the 10 pages. The articles are much more varied in their topics and the vocab I need to search is much more "distant" and less-used words. It's been fantastic and of the 3 websites, Global Voices has been my favourite articles.

I think the next "ebook of articles" I make will be purely with Global Voices articles.

In addition, I rummaged through a very cool 2nd hand bookstore last weekend and picked up a mexican magazine for $1 and the life-story of bodybuilder Ronnie Coleman, both in spanish... So I think I'll use the magazine for my next reading material.

I used no interesting frases last week... But my Chilean friend taught me one... She said to me "eres el rey de los picota...". And now I've saved "no seas picota" in my phone and I'm going to use it as much as possible.

What else? Last weekend I went to visit a beautiful beach city about 2 hours from Sydney. While walking along the beach I saw 2 people drinking mate, so I went over and started talking to them in spanish. The guy couldn't speak english and the girl could only speak a little bit, so we rotated between the 2 languages but about 80% of the time in spanish. We talked about where they were both from (La Plata and Mendoza) and I told them a bit about my travels and time in Argentina. They offered for me to join them and drink mate for a while but I had to get a move on at that stage. The nicest part was understanding absolutely everything they said, so the argentine-specific listening and training has really paid off up until now.

Finally, I promise for anyone waiting that the FSI-review post will get here soon. This is a very quiet work week as everything winds down and next week will be holidays, so the post will get done.



--- Running Totals ---

Podcast Listening: 122 h 40 min (End of week 33 since I started records)

Pages Read / Books read: 894 / 9 books

Missed Days (No study at all): 5

[PeterMollenburg]

Updates:
This week's favourite frase was; "Pero que tirada" when a friend told me she couldn't swim at one of the beautiful waterfalls she visited. And also, when telling a friend I'd started writing out pages of my spanish book by hand, I said "pues, no quiero jactarme pero ya habia empezado leer y escribir..." because jactar is such a cool word.

Hey zac299,

Any chance you could translate your favourite phrases for the week? It's kind of a dead end for me (and likely others) when you say your week's favourite phrase was .... without any translation. Even though studying Spanish myself, I'm just not keen on going off and searching the meaning of idioms or phrases, so if you practically know their translations..... please?

[zac299]

Updates:

I hope everyone had a good Xmas/NY period. I sure did, spending most of the time fishing.

This update will be a cumulative one for the last 3ish weeks or so since my last post.

I made a decision to actively take about 2 weeks off study. I still did a fair bit of reading, listening, messaging with friends etc... But I don't know what days in particular I did something and what days in particular I didn't. I say this to note I'm not adding any days to my "Missed days" running tally at the bottom of each post in this log.

So, the biggest achievement recently was finishing the 2nd "ebook of articles" I'd put together. That adds another 245 pages to my pages read tally.

I've made a 3rd ebook purely from Global Voices articles and I've already made good headway into this. My word-lookups have decreased dramatically. Sometimes there isn't a single word-lookup for a whole page. Some of the more outlier vocabulary is starting to make its way into my thick noggin' as well.

I'm also 17 pages into that physical magazine I bought last year. However, I haven't been reading from it for about 10 days now because my phone screen decided to go ka-poot and I couldn't use Google translate. It was basically unusable for 9 or 10 days until I got back here to Sydney and had it taken care of last week.

Since my last post I've finished El Puntero which, for my records, was 39 episodes. I'm up to episode 32 of La Reina. And I'm up to episode 03 of "hermanos y detective" which we'll refer to as "H and D". You guessed it, another Argentine series.

There was exactly 3 hours of podcast listening over the last few weeks as well.

I finally got back into Gramatica de Uso and I'm now up to lesson 35.

A cool frase I used recently was after describing the ongoing phone-screen issue to my Chilean friend, I wrote "nose que picardia esta pasando pero ne me gusta" because picardia is a cute word.

And finally, a funny story: I was trying to talk to a french chick the other day who almost immediately told me she couldn't speak english. I tried to slow it down and speak as basically as possible but for minutes she was basically giving me bambi-eyes that shouted "I understand nothing". Finally, she asked if I spoke spanish and suddenly we could communicate. We spent a good 10 minutes there in the street speaking to each other and by the end we were both laughing and making jokes at the absurdity of a french chick and and aussie dude united and communicating through spanish.

We've been talking a bit since then and she said; "I wish I could speak english as clearly as you speak spanish" which was a really nice moment personally for me.

As a final note, I finally posted my thoughts and reflections on going through FSI. For anyone still interested it's here:

https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 14&t=21358


--- Running Totals ---

Podcast Listening: 125 h 40 min (End of week 36 since I started records)

Pages Read / Books read: 1099 / 10 books

Missed Days (No study at all): 5

Any chance you could translate your favourite phrases for the week?

To be honest, probably not. As I look back through my log periodically, these have acted like forced SRS and I know by not having the english translation there, it has really forced me to think hard to remember some of them, which has helped further reinforce them in my mind.

[iguanamon]

Good job, Zac! You are exercising all facets of Spanish. It's funny that you met up with a French girl who couldn't speak English and you communicated in Spanish. Same think happened to me a long, long time ago in Spain. I met a French girl in Sevilla during Semana Santa. She couldn't speak English, and I couldn't speak French, but we both spoke Spanish! It was fun. We hung out together for a few days and kept in touch.

I'm not surprised that all of your Spanish-speaking friends are from the Cono Sur, since you're a Southern Hemisphere guy too. I never met any Spanish-speakers when I was living in Sydney who weren't from Chile, Argentina, or Uruguay... which is the dialect of Spanish that I am exposed to the least.

Well done with using GlobalVoices.org for reading widely. It's one of the facets of reading in L2 that has benefited me a lot. It gives me exposure to language I won't see if I only read what interests me. It makes reading what interests me easier. Reading is, for me, the best way to broaden my vocabulary. It helps my listening, my writing, and speaking too. Each skill reinforces the other. Like any other skill, reading gets better the more I read.

I watched La Reina del Sur years ago. I had read the book first and I highly recommend it. It's definitely a page-turner. The Falcó series by Pérez-Reverte is another gripping read. There's an Argentine writer I quite like- Cristian Perfumo. I loved his book Los crímenes del glaciar. I couldn't put it down.

You are now at the stage where you are learning more from native media and native-speakers than you can from courses. Working through GdeUso will certainly be more valuable to you now. Your progress shows how putting in the work as well as integrating native media and native-speakers along the way will "turbocharge" your learning. ¡Bien hecho!

edit: changed sentence to reflect what I meant to say as "It helps my listening, my writing, and speaking too" .

[zac299]

I'm not surprised that all of your Spanish-speaking friends are from the Cono Sur, since you're a Southern Hemisphere guy too. I never met any Spanish-speakers when I was living in Sydney who weren't from Chile, Argentina, or Uruguay... which is the dialect of Spanish that I am exposed to the least.

It's funny because the flip side of this of course is that I believe you're living in a part of the world where I'd assume the majority of the spanish you're coming across is carribean style... Honduras, costa rica, puerto rican etc... Which is just as challenging - If not more - than these damn argentinians/chileans.

I don't know about you, but for sh$ts and giggles I purposely get into arguments with my spanish speaking friends about how much easier it is for them to learn english than it is for english speakers to learn spanish.

We argue for a while, then I point out to them they're learning a language with basically 4 main regionalisms... The US, UK, Canada, Australia...

While learning spanish means you're having to deal with something like 28 different dialects and regions. If that's not bad enough, then you have countries like Chile where it's basically a 3rd different language all together

It's around that point of the argument they usually give-in and concede my point

(And yes, to anyone about to make a post about it, I realise I'm oversimplifying the "4 regions speaking english" part of my argument. And it's on purpose to make my argument more powerful, you'd do the same as well if you were defending this point )

Well done with using GlobalVoices.org for reading widely. It's one of the facets of reading in L2 that has benefited me a lot. It gives me exposure to language I won't see if I only read what interests me. It makes reading what interests me easier. Reading is, for me, the best way to broaden my vocabulary. It helps my listening, my writing, and speaking too. Each skill reinforces the other. Like any other skill, reading gets better the more I read.

Cheers mate, it really has been a fantastic resource so thanks once again for putting me onto it.

I watched La Reina del Sur years ago. I had read the book first and I highly recommend it. It's definitely a page-turner. The Falcó series by Pérez-Reverte is another gripping read. There's an Argentine writer I quite like- Cristian Perfumo. I loved his book Los crímenes del glaciar. I couldn't put it down.

And thanks also for the recommendations. I think I'll give that Los crimenes del glaciar book a shot pretty soon. It seems very interesting.

Just out of interest, from a vocab acquisition point of view, do you think continuing to read from varieties of articles is a quicker method than jumping into actual books?

Sure, if I want to put a strong focus on building my economics vocabulary in spanish, I should read an economics book... Or if I want to know every utensil in the kitchen, I should read a cooking book...

But what I mean is, from your perspective, do you think there's a "turning point" where I should flip from putting together articles from global voices and start, for example, reading books like Los crimenes del glaciar, as a strategy for more and more obscure vocabulary acquisition?

For example, here's the last 10 words I've noted in my cuaderno as new words while reading the Global Voices articles:

-- Descartar
-- Trastorno
-- Brujeria
-- Cortafuego
-- un recordatorio
-- una redada
-- Una sequia
-- desgarradora
-- resaltar
-- Intercalar

What I'm trying to say is, obviously these are much more obscure and low-frequency words I'm coming across for the first time. Evidently this is letting my 'intensive" reading of these articles slowly become more and more extensive because I'm not stopping/researching/writing down new vocabulary nearly as often as even just a month or two ago. This is proven because I'm now down to 45 minutes to read the same 10 pages that used to take me an hour.

From your experience, is there a point in time when you generally think to yourself; Ok Iguanamon, it's time to put the articles away and start going into book where the authors are purposely using much richer vocabulary <<< As a conscious strategy to continue maximising the effectiveness of your reading time (When you're still in the "reading with a purpose" as opposed to "reading purely for pleasure" stage of your language learning)?

You are now at the stage where you are learning more from native media and native-speakers than you can from courses. Working through GdeUso will certainly be more valuable to you now. Your progress shows how putting in the work as well as integrating native media and native-speakers along the way will "turbocharge" your learning. ¡Bien hecho!

You've never led me wrong before. When you speak, I'll be the first to listen. GdeUso and much more speaking with natives is the plan from here onwards!



Updates:

Back into the normality of things.

2 hours and 50 minutes of podcast listening last week.

Heaps more reading. As a note for myself, my speed is really starting to pick up. As you can see from the word list above, it's taking more and more obscure, less frequent words to trip me up/slow me down. I think the last few reading sessions I've gotten the same 10-page milestone down to an average of 45 minutes and if my memory serves, I'm sure I had 1 reading session where it was only 40 minutes. I'm really, really pleased with this.

I'm now up to episode 6 of H and D. But I didn't watch a single episode of La Reina last week.

There was no Gramatica de Uso lessons last week but I'll be back into it this week.

Plus there's been no new cool frases because my phone screen is having another problem which makes typing a pain in the ass... So I've told all my friends I'll get back to them soon. I've gotta take it in tomorrow to hopefully get it fixed once and for all.

Last week I spent a lot more time speaking spanish. I met the French chick one evening and we spend probably 4 hours in spanish. It was really funny because I was really noticing all the errors she made that I used to make. That's not to say I'm still not making plenty of errors as well, just that it really hammered home the perspective of how all my spanish speaking friends must have been/continue feeling when they speak to me in spanish

Another evening I spend around 3 hours with a Bolivian friend. Her English is like my spanish, she understands a lot more than she can produce although she's really not bad at all. But for the whole time, the default was spanish because the conversation could flow faster that way. It really is like treating my ears to a "sweet dessert" speaking with bolivians/peruvian/colombians occasionally, compared to the normal chilean/argentinians I'm generally listening to. Their spanish really is just so much nicer and prettier to listen to. They almost sing their language and their pronunciation in general is so much clearer as well. Sometimes I wonder why I'm such a sucker for punishment.

Finally, another evening I spent around 6 hours with a colombian friend. Her English is fantastic so we normally begin in this language but by the end she's speaking in spanish because it's just easier, less brain power. Then I'll just respond in spanish if I know it won't be a problem, or I'll throw in some english to get the full meaning across.

What this last week of "excess" spanish speaking has shown me is that I'm getting way more comfortable going into deeper topics/conversations. I was genuinely impressed with some of the topics and details I was handling/expressing during these recent conversations.


--- Running Totals ---

Podcast Listening: 128 h 30 min (End of week 37 since I started records)

Pages Read / Books read: 1099 / 10 books

Missed Days (No study at all): 5

[iguanamon]

... I believe you're living in a part of the world where I'd assume the majority of the spanish you're coming across is carribean style... Honduras, costa rica, puerto rican etc... Which is just as challenging - If not more - than these damn argentinians/chileans.

Most of the Spanish I am exposed to here is Caribbean- PR, DR, Cuban, Venezuelan. Yes, there are local vocabulary and accent differences. Trying to master slang without living in-country is difficult, and ultimately not a productive use of my time as I often travel to other Spanish-speaking areas/countries besides Puerto Rico. "Jugo de china" is "orange juice" in PR. "La guagua" is "bus" in Cuba, PR, DR, and Islas Canarias. Spain has its own slang and it can differ by region from Asturias to Andalucia to Madrid to Barcelona. So, I just do the best I can wherever I am and I don't have any problems.

... Just out of interest, from a vocab acquisition point of view, do you think continuing to read from varieties of articles is a quicker method than jumping into actual books?...
But what I mean is, from your perspective, do you think there's a "turning point" where I should flip from putting together articles from global voices and start, for example, reading books like Los crimenes del glaciar, as a strategy for more and more obscure vocabulary acquisition?

I never read to acquire vocabulary in a specific, dedicated, manner. I acquire vocabulary naturally by reading. I am genuinely interested in some of the articles in GlobalVoices and other sites. I am rarely flummoxed by a word, but it sometimes happens that I am. I learn something new every day in all my languages, which is normal for those of us who don't live in a TL country.

... From your experience, is there a point in time when you generally think to yourself; Ok Iguanamon, it's time to put the articles away and start going into book where the authors are purposely using much richer vocabulary <<< As a conscious strategy to continue maximising the effectiveness of your reading time (When you're still in the "reading with a purpose" as opposed to "reading purely for pleasure" stage of your language learning)?

My method of acquiring vocabulary happens gradually, not purposefully, so I read a lot and get pleasure and purpose at the same time. I don't really use a list, srs, lingQ, memrise, or anything of that sort. I just keep reading with the knowledge that I will see these words again, even if "low frequency" in the context of what I am reading.

Yes, I do believe you can go on from here without more courses. You can always review if you feel the need, but I don't think you have to go back to the beginning. Reading widely in topical subjects ensures adequate exposure. For instance, I read an interesting article today ¿Por qué es un error pensar en el cerebro humano como una computadora?, not because I am trying to learn new vocabulary (there wasn't any for me) but because I want to. I got to this level over the years not by emphasizing vocabulary learning, but by just reading every day. It's simply a part of my life now. I read books the same way. I enjoy them and as a bonus I may learn something- either a word or a turn of phrase/idiom. I strive to be well-rounded. I've always been curious about the world- its knowledge and mysteries. Why not indulge my curiosity by using a second language!

I like to converse with the locals when I travel. In most of the Spanish and Portuguese-speaking world nobody is going to confuse me with a native-speaker, I'm 6'1" tall and have a very Anglo face. Having a broad vocabulary helps me to establish my "bonafides" so they don't switch to English on me. Most times in Spanish-speaking countries My Spanish is much better than their rudimentary (or even non-existent) English.

To answer your question, no, there doesn't come a time when I switch between reading widely and just reading books. It's not an "either-or" situation. I still do both. Right now, I'm heavily into "La Promesa"- a telenovela on RTVE Spain. Episode 227 (hour-long episodes) is where I am at. So, I don't really want to get into a book right now too. You know that a high quality Spanish telenovela is not in the same realm as say "Neighbours", . Besides, I need and want to make time for Portuguese, Ladino, Catalan, and my Creoles too- just a word to the wise if you get sucked-in to learning more languages after Spanish. I enjoy each of these languages.

Keep up the good work, Zac299. Read, read widely, read a lot- every day. Speak, listen, and write when you can. I admire your diligence, perseverance, and persistence. These qualities have served you well. They are more important than any single resource in learning a language.

Lastly, there is a Zen Buddhist koan that says "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him". I am definitely not an expert on learning Spanish. I'm just a guy who happens to have learned Spanish to a high level and I enjoy what I can do with it. Just remember, it takes time.

[zac299]

Most of the Spanish I am exposed to here is Caribbean- PR, DR, Cuban, Venezuelan. Yes, there are local vocabulary and accent differences. Trying to master slang without living in-country is difficult, and ultimately not a productive use of my time as I often travel to other Spanish-speaking areas/countries besides Puerto Rico. "Jugo de china" is "orange juice" in PR. "La guagua" is "bus" in Cuba, PR, DR, and Islas Canarias. Spain has its own slang and it can differ by region from Asturias to Andalucia to Madrid to Barcelona. So, I just do the best I can wherever I am and I don't have any problems.

I love la guagua and I'm going to start using it. I can't believe how many different ways there is to say "bus". Depending on who I'm talking to, I'll generally use "el colectivo" or "el bondi" to confuse them. As you'll no doubt remember from your time in Sydney, Bondi is our main tourist beach, so I always make my argentinian friends laugh by telling them "este finde vamos a tomar un bondi hasta Bondi"

My method of acquiring vocabulary happens gradually, not purposefully, so I read a lot and get pleasure and purpose at the same time. I don't really use a list, srs, lingQ, memrise, or anything of that sort. I just keep reading with the knowledge that I will see these words again, even if "low frequency" in the context of what I am reading.

To answer your question, no, there doesn't come a time when I switch between reading widely and just reading books. It's not an "either-or" situation. I still do both. Right now, I'm heavily into "La Promesa"- a telenovela on RTVE Spain. Episode 227 (hour-long episodes) is where I am at. So, I don't really want to get into a book right now too. You know that a high quality Spanish telenovela is not in the same realm as say "Neighbours", ..

I get it mate, you're a worldly fella who'se walked the road and learned a handful of languages. You know how to and you have confidence in your methods of doing it. You have faith and trust in the general process.

From a philosophical point of view, hypothetically, go back to being the 16 year-old iguanamon in Southern USA who was picking up some radio channels in Spanish from Cuba during the nighttime and having your fire for learning the spanish language awaken inside you...

You're walking down the road of your first journey into language learning...

You're young and like all teenagers, you want everything yesterday. You've got the impatience of any person of that age. You want your vocabulary to be well rounded and continuing to expand at the fastest rate humanely possible because you're anxious to be an amazing spanish speaker who, despite your height and anglo-face, wishes to seem like a native when you speak to other spanish speakers...

In that particular circumstance, does your answer to the question I posed to you change at all?

I'm not saying I'm going to even change my method to books or whatever. I agree with what your wrote in your last post. I'm enjoying the Global Voices articles immensely. The articles have been a delightful addition of a new splashes of topics and themes I would simply never catch myself reading in English. And I can't wait to jump into books simply to fuel my curiosity and enjoyment as well, rather than as a structured "learning tool".

I'm simply curious from a philosophical viewpoint whether your answer changes given those strict hypothetical circumstances I've laid out above? (And do forgive me if I got some of the details wrong, I was straining my memory from some of the stories you've shared in I'm guessing James29's logs from years ago).

Also, that Neighbours reference caused some traumatic flashbacks of horrid evening TV during the early teenage years, thanks for that...

Keep up the good work, Zac299. Read, read widely, read a lot- every day. Speak, listen, and write when you can. I admire your diligence, perseverance, and persistence. These qualities have served you well. They are more important than any single resource in learning a language.

... Besides, I need and want to make time for Portuguese, Ladino, Catalan, and my Creoles too- just a word to the wise if you get sucked-in to learning more languages after Spanish. I enjoy each of these languages.

I appreciate your words and also want to say once again a big thanks for your guidance and sharing your experience from the beginning of this log.

Years ago, I never saw myself as interested in learning a language. When I finally started, I never thought I'd ever be interested in even attempting a 2nd IF I somehow managed to learn spanish... And now, while I wouldn't even contemplate beginning before I'm at a sufficiently high level of spanish in possibly - And hopefully - Another 2 or 3 years... I'm already starting to get tickled by the idea of Brazilian Portuguese as a mid-term dream.

[iguanamon]

I appreciate your words and also want to say once again a big thanks for your guidance and sharing your experience from the beginning of this log.

Por nada, Zac.

I love la guagua and I'm going to start using it. I can't believe how many different ways there is to say "bus". Depending on who I'm talking to, I'll generally use "el colectivo" or "el bondi" to confuse them. As you'll no doubt remember from your time in Sydney, Bondi is our main tourist beach, so I always make my argentinian friends laugh by telling them "este finde vamos a tomar un bondi hasta Bondi"

Ironically, the word for "streetcar/tram" in Brazil is similar to, and must be related to, the Argentine "bondi" (which I never knew existed until now!): is "bonde". In Portugal it's an "eléctrico". Its etymology apparently comes form the English word "bond" (which has many definitions), but I don't have the time to research the connection to it right now.

Yeah, I've spent many a lazy afternoon at Bondi Beach and Double Bay. The word "la guagua" is very limited to Cuba, PR, DR, and Las Islas Canarias. In the Cono del Sur the word "guagua" (onomatopoeia) means a baby. A bus driver here in the Caribbean is "el guaguero/la guagera". This is where Spanish slang doesn't always equate across countries/regions. The all purpose word in Spanish for "bus" is of course, autobús- readily understood everywhere in the Spanish-speaking world.

From a philosophical point of view, hypothetically, go back to being the 16 year-old iguanamon in Southern USA who was picking up some radio channels in Spanish from Cuba during the nighttime and having your fire for learning the spanish language awaken inside you...
You're walking down the road of your first journey into language learning...
You're young and like all teenagers, you want everything yesterday. You've got the impatience of any person of that age. You want your vocabulary to be well rounded and continuing to expand at the fastest rate humanely possible because you're anxious to be an amazing spanish speaker who, despite your height and anglo-face, wishes to seem like a native when you speak to other spanish speakers...
In that particular circumstance, does your answer to the question I posed to you change at all?

Not much. I've already answered that question countless times whenever I give any beginner advice on how to learn a language. My advice remains the same. Still, to this day, I don't think purpose driven vocabulary learning works miracles. Without context and usage in reading, writing, listening, speaking- it's just not as useful in my experience beyond the initial learning (just starting out) process in order to gain a foundation.

Building upon that foundation is what I do, when I read, listen, write, and speak. A building or a house only needs so much of a foundation and framework. What's more important is the structure over that foundation, which is what you build by learning how to manipulate the language and add vocabulary to that basic foundation and framework. It takes time, you can be as impatient as you want but it aint going to get you there any quicker (provided that a deeper understanding and usage is wanted). Reading every day, listening every day, writing and speaking when you can, consulting grammar when needed, is what gets you there. Even with all we have available at our fingertips today, I've found no better or quicker way to get through intermediate and advanced levels. There's a reason for why the "Super Challenge" exists. There are many ways to get to intermediate level. At intermediate and advanced level using the language and learning from doing is fairly consistent among learners who have reached high levels.

What I was able to do when I was younger took more time. I had to be patient. I just didn't have the resources available to me that are out there now. Today, that process is accelerated as I have proven to myself in the other languages I've managed to learn. Having learned Spanish gives me a better ability to learn the other languages quicker and more effectively, even without cognates.

In fact, Spanish hindered my ability to think of Portuguese as a separate language for a while when I first started learning it. We all want a quicker way to learn a language. I got suckered-in to the "From Spanish to Portuguese" courses when I first began with Portuguese. This method made me see Portuguese through a Spanish prism. I had to drop the courses that leveraged Spanish because it wasn't efficient for my purposes and needs. It wasn't until I started to learn Portuguese as its own language that my Spanish helped me rather than hindered me- same thing with Ladino/Djudeo-espanyol and Catalan.

You have a much better chance of passing for a native with Argentines, Uruguayans, and Chileans than I do with Dominicans and Boricuas. The Cono Sur countries are more built upon widespread immigration. Since you plan on going back to Argentina, it makes sense to learn their lingo more than it does for me. Me, I've only been there once, briefly, but I did enjoy speaking with them in standard Spanish and had no problems understanding and being understood. I had long conversations with an Argentine woman in Spain. She told me that she was purposely not using Argentine slang with me. She said she learned that she needed to do that early on in Spain dealing with Spaniards.

Living here in the Caribbean, I do make an effort to sound more Puerto Rican. I spend some time there, but I also spend time in Miami, which is more Cuban and a lot of other LA. I love traveling in Spain- where I also meet many Dominicans, Venezuelans, Cubans. I often get asked if I grew up in Miami , which I take as a compliment.

Oddly enough, I've made more of an effort to sound native-like with Portuguese. I model my speech, accent and usage after São Paulo. That being said, I've spent a lot of time in Portugal and I've never had a problem with the "Tugas". Sometimes, I get asked how long have I lived in Brazil. They know I'm not Brazilian. I also get the same thing in Brazil.

(As an aside, when I lived in Sydney, I lived in a predominately Italian neighborhood (late 90's) called "Five Dock". The Italians there thought I was Australian because of my Anglo looks... until I opened my mouth. )

If you do decide to learn Portuguese in the future, let me know. I've been through that minefield... and it is a minefield... most definitely not a "walk in the park".

[zac299]

Ironically, the word for "streetcar/tram" in Brazil is similar to, and must be related to, the Argentine "bondi" (which I never knew existed until now!): is "bonde". In Portugal it's an "eléctrico". Its etymology apparently comes form the English word "bond" (which has many definitions), but I don't have the time to research the connection to it right now.

Ah interesting, I'd not heard that before from my brazilian friends. I'll ask them more about it next time I hang out with them. Small linguistic world.

Not much. I've already answered that question countless times whenever I give any beginner advice on how to learn a language. My advice remains the same. Still, to this day, I don't think purpose driven vocabulary learning works miracles. Without context and usage in reading, writing, listening, speaking- it's just not as useful in my experience beyond the initial learning (just starting out) process in order to gain a foundation.

Building upon that foundation is what I do, when I read, listen, write, and speak. A building or a house only needs so much of a foundation and framework. What's more important is the structure over that foundation, which is what you build by learning how to manipulate the language and add vocabulary to that basic foundation and framework. It takes time, you can be as impatient as you want but it aint going to get you there any quicker (provided that a deeper understanding and usage is wanted). Reading every day, listening every day, writing and speaking when you can, consulting grammar when needed, is what gets you there. Even with all we have available at our fingertips today, I've found no better or quicker way to get through intermediate and advanced levels. There's a reason for why the "Super Challenge" exists. There are many ways to get to intermediate level. At intermediate and advanced level using the language and learning from doing is fairly consistent among learners who have reached high levels.

What I was able to do when I was younger took more time. I had to be patient. I just didn't have the resources available to me that are out there now. Today, that process is accelerated as I have proven to myself in the other languages I've managed to learn. Having learned Spanish gives me a better ability to learn the other languages quicker and more effectively, even without cognates.

Perfect then, asked and answered.

You're right, now that I'm starting to get some decent foundations in place, the language is become more and more fun each time I engage with it.

In fact, Spanish hindered my ability to think of Portuguese as a separate language for a while when I first started learning it. We all want a quicker way to learn a language. I got suckered-in to the "From Spanish to Portuguese" courses when I first began with Portuguese. This method made me see Portuguese through a Spanish prism. I had to drop the courses that leveraged Spanish because it wasn't efficient for my purposes and needs. It wasn't until I started to learn Portuguese as its own language that my Spanish helped me rather than hindered me- same thing with Ladino/Djudeo-espanyol and Catalan.

You have a much better chance of passing for a native with Argentines, Uruguayans, and Chileans than I do with Dominicans and Boricuas. The Cono Sur countries are more built upon widespread immigration. Since you plan on going back to Argentina, it makes sense to learn their lingo more than it does for me. Me, I've only been there once, briefly, but I did enjoy speaking with them in standard Spanish and had no problems understanding and being understood. I had long conversations with an Argentine woman in Spain. She told me that she was purposely not using Argentine slang with me. She said she learned that she needed to do that early on in Spain dealing with Spaniards.

Living here in the Caribbean, I do make an effort to sound more Puerto Rican. I spend some time there, but I also spend time in Miami, which is more Cuban and a lot of other LA. I love traveling in Spain- where I also meet many Dominicans, Venezuelans, Cubans. I often get asked if I grew up in Miami , which I take as a compliment.

Oddly enough, I've made more of an effort to sound native-like with Portuguese. I model my speech, accent and usage after São Paulo. That being said, I've spent a lot of time in Portugal and I've never had a problem with the "Tugas". Sometimes, I get asked how long have I lived in Brazil. They know I'm not Brazilian. I also get the same thing in Brazil.

(As an aside, when I lived in Sydney, I lived in a predominately Italian neighborhood (late 90's) called "Five Dock". The Italians there thought I was Australian because of my Anglo looks... until I opened my mouth. )

If you do decide to learn Portuguese in the future, let me know. I've been through that minefield... and it is a minefield... most definitely not a "walk in the park".

I'll definitely let you know if/when I undertake Portuguese in the future.

Just out of interest, is there a particular spanish dialect you actually enjoy the most? Or by now with your experience it's just "spanish is spanish is spanish, just substitute at few localisms into it"




Updates:

More of the same, I'm afraid.

1h 20 min of podcast listening.

More reading, getting close to finishing my 3rd "ebook of articles". Although I've got a cool little reading-trick that I want to share with the forum pretty soon.

I'm up to episode 9 of H and D which means I've almost finished this short 10-episode series. Still haven't watched any more La Reina episodes. I need to find a way to get this back into my routine more often.

No gramatica de uso lessons last week either. But I should be able to get to the book at least 1 time this coming week.

I used a cool word this week while messaging friends now that my phone screen is working again. An argentinian friend just finished travelling around Spain and was telling a funny story that in Granada they have a very funny and distinct accent. She told me they add the suffix "illa" to their words.

Verduras > verdurillas
Cerveza > cervezilla
Mesa > Mesilla

To this, I told her it would be amazing to have a mixture of the Granadan accent with the argentine Porteno accent. And then said 'Que desgarradora que no lo existe la verdad!"

Last week I spend 4 or 5 more hours with the French chick speaking spanish

I also spent 4 hours with a new colombian friend. She understands english pretty well but really doesn't feel confident to speak it. So we spent basically the whole time in spanish. Again, the ability to go deeper and deeper with what I want to express, with more profound topics is really surprising me. I'm purposely bringing up 1 or 2 topics quite regularly with my different friends so it's like a 'forced repetition' of some topics and by the 2nd or 3rd pass through, so much more vocabulary is sticking in my noggin'. She taught me another Colombian slang "que churro/a" (Like the food) but it's a way to say someone's attractive, handsome etc.


--- Running Totals ---

Podcast Listening: 129 h 50 min (End of week 38 since I started records)

Pages Read / Books read: 1099 / 10 books

Missed Days (No study at all): 5