Una Aventura Congelada: Let It Go, Do It Slow; But Never Say, "It's Over"

[księżycowy]

No worries about me thinking it's fantastic. [That honor goes to First-Year Polish (the old paperback with the supplements).] But I'm always on the look out for new stuff for the resource list. Thanks for both the link and title!

[eido]

So I've known for a long time now that my daily habits don't work for me. A relative brought up the same issue recently, asking me to change my outlook on life for a better future. The problem is, I don't know how I could enact these changes practically (although asking her might be a good start, for instance).

For example, I'm pretty burnt-out with language learning. For the past year I've really just been coasting even if I've said I've been learning my share. And I have been learning; but not nearly as much as I'd like, and probably not nearly as much as I should to keep up continued progress and see that satisfaction I crave.

I want to quit, because I just don't see the purpose of it all anymore. I don't have a passion for it like I used to; although, it would upset me to do so just a little bit since I've been doing it so long and have claimed that to be part of my identity. I get people sometimes just do things out of necessity, and that's the part of me that needs growing, I guess. I don't see the point in doing something if you don't have the passion/desire/will to do it. (In my view, it'll just lead to more issues in the long-run; but maybe that's a "me" thing.)

I've basically stalled out with Korean, and my Spanish isn't getting any better. I can't speak Korean at all... I only know grammar and a bit of how to write and read. I can speak a bit of Spanish which people compliment me on, but probably out of courtesy and/or pity... and the rest of the skills are decent, but not stellar.

I probably catch myself out quite a bit, and those of you who might be reading this entry might find this all a bit negative. However, it's what I sincerely believe and what's been my experience. I'm feeling in general in a rut and and there's really nothing interesting to update you all on except this deep, pervasive sense of ennui that I'm stuck in. I don't particularly like it, but it's there, and I need to confront it.

If you have any thoughts, please feel free to write them here. You don't necessarily have to give advice as it's ultimately my decision to make on what I will do to solve these problems. ( And I'm not a very good advice-taker anyway. )

Anyway, thank you for reading if you got this far. I have some tough decisions to make.

[Xenops]

I understand where you're coming from: sometimes I lose interest in things, such as learning particular languages, as well. And I think this is natural, and perhaps not emphasized enough--we're humans, not productivity machines. We go through phases, or sometimes life has too much change that maintenance is really difficult.

Take care of yourself.

Btw, I watched Gravity Falls for the first time this year: it was fun to watch.

[iguanamon]

Eido, I watched you grow from a novice to someone who can learn languages. That is an ability you have gained. This ability will stay with you. As you have said, neither I nor anyone else can tell you how to motivate yourself.

People come here for a thousand different reasons. Some people need to learn a language, for work, family, school, or because they will be living where the language is spoken. Some enjoy the process of learning a language. Some have a vague aim of learning a language because it would be a cool to do. Some like it because in the chaotic world in which we live, learning a language is something we can control to a large extent. There are many other different and valid reasons for language-learning- curiosity; a challenge; heritage.

Some are like me in that they want to broaden their horizons. I like that I can travel from here to the tip of South America and through a large part of the Caribbean and North America with the languages I know. There's also Iberia in Europe. I love reading in another language. I enjoy making friends in another language and not being the proverbial "ugly American" when I travel. Everyone has their own equally valid motivation for language-learning that is unique to them.

I joined our precursor forum, HTLAL, over 14 years ago. I wanted to improve my Spanish and ended up gaining the knowledge I needed to be able to learn a few other languages. While I will never be finished learning, in a sense, I've "graduated" now. Why do I still hang around? I like giving back. If I can help just one person to gain the joy of actually learning a language to a high level, that is satisfaction enough for me.

That being said life is so much bigger than language-learning. There are many other pastimes and facets of life to which we can apply ourselves. I am the only person in my real world family and friends who has learned other languages. They all live their own lives relatively happily and relatively fulfilled as is possible in our world as non-language-learners.

Life is short. Life is a condition that none of us asked for but we have it anyway. We cannot control to a large extent what happens to us, but we can control our reaction to it. Your personal validity does not change because you decide to step away from a hobby. You are more than Korean, Icelandic, Faroese or Spanish.

Often when people write a post about thinking about quitting language-learning they are seeking a reason why they shouldn't quit. I am not going to tell you not to quit. There is nothing wrong with, nor any shame at all in, quitting any pursuit. The sunk cost fallacy is indeed a fallacy. If you are not enjoying language-learning leave it be. Come back to it if you want after a while... or not. Just be the best Eido you can be. You have a lot of life to live, a lot more to discover in life, a lot more to contribute to those around you, a lot of love to give and receive. The decision you make will be the best one you can make for yourself, whatever it may be. I wish you all the best.

[eido]

I understand where you're coming from: sometimes I lose interest in things, such as learning particular languages, as well. And I think this is natural, and perhaps not emphasized enough--we're humans, not productivity machines. We go through phases, or sometimes life has too much change that maintenance is really difficult.

Take care of yourself.

Btw, I watched Gravity Falls for the first time this year: it was fun to watch.

I don't think I'm necessarily a "productivity machine," though in some respects I have been conditioned to try to be one. I'm really more laid-back than I seem. For instance, I don't like due dates, and am a horrible test taker. I'd rather go with the flow and not be rushed by other people, but I inevitably always am... and at this stage in my life, which is a few paces behind others of my age group, I'm half late-bloomer, half wise owl and I'm at the point where this disparity doesn't bother me as much as you'd think it would.

But yeah, thank you for the message. After reading what everyone had to say, I had a major life epiphany (especially from reading @iguanamon's writing). I decided I do have to take some things seriously, even if they're mostly hobbyist in nature. But I can't take them so seriously they get me down.

Therefore, with renewed vigor, I bought subscriptions to AI and began practicing. While these technologies have their faults, I know enough to figure out most of what my mistakes are when the machines glitch. I'm much less afraid to practice with these virtual assistants than I am with real people. And, @Xenops, if you remember the episode of Gravity Falls called "Soos and the Real Girl" with all its Internet/anime cheesiness and hidden doses of reality, you'd recognize me in there somewhere. (By the way, I'm glad you enjoyed the series. It's a gem.)

My spoken Spanish is a disaster, especially under time pressure or when I'm nervous. But I'm determined to remedy that (at least a little). I have a lot of willpower, but directing it in the right place/at the right time is my challenge.

Eido, I watched you grow from a novice to someone who can learn languages. That is an ability you have gained. This ability will stay with you. As you have said, neither I nor anyone else can tell you how to motivate yourself.

...

Often when people write a post about thinking about quitting language-learning they are seeking a reason why they shouldn't quit. I am not going to tell you not to quit. There is nothing wrong with, nor any shame at all in, quitting any pursuit. The sunk cost fallacy is indeed a fallacy. If you are not enjoying language-learning leave it be. Come back to it if you want after a while... or not. Just be the best Eido you can be. You have a lot of life to live, a lot more to discover in life, a lot more to contribute to those around you, a lot of love to give and receive. The decision you make will be the best one you can make for yourself, whatever it may be. I wish you all the best.

This right here is on the money. As always @iguanamon is lucid and knowledgeable. The emphasis above is mine, and what really made me turn my frown upside-down even though I was halfway there. These words will stay with me as I learn and serve as a motivation cocktail.

I apologize to everyone who thought I was trying to do a "rage quit" - that wasn't what I was going for. I just wanted to muse, and maybe vent a little under the guise of pseudo-intellectualism.

if you're learning languages for fun - which I think you are - & it stops being fun, then cut back, or take a break, until to get your mojo back.
...
while you're taking a break you can work on how to accept a compliment

This post was short and succinct; and it stung. But it was a good sting. It reminded me of what I've been working on for years but haven't managed to perfect. I can take compliments, but should I? That's the railroad crossing my shoelace got stuck under, and much like Sisyphus or Prometheus, I'm in a terrible rock-and-a-hard-place. ( Was that enough Greek mythology for you? )

Anyway, thanks to all who read. You're amazing.

[eido]

Hi, everyone. After that scare that I was being too dramatic, I have more news to report that will probably seem dramatic, but which really isn't my intention.

In my current position, I work with families who speak Spanish either as their sole or primary language, then coupled with English. It's not my area of focus in the job description, though. This past week I was almost called on to assist with such a family, and I panicked because while I can understand in large part many dialects and nuances of Spanish when it's spoken, I cannot reciprocate in kind through speech most of the time.

As the people I work with don't really study languages with the appreciation I do, it's going to be difficult to explain one day why eido can't perform. I think they hired me because of my degree/skills, which include Spanish studies, but even with a B2-C1 in the language, I know my limits. What should probably happen is I should tell them I'm not comfortable communicating with these families... although that might reflect poorly on me.

I'd rather be honest, though - especially considering we have several Hispanic workers in the department that grew up bilingual and have much more talent than I do and could probably handle these situations much better, coming from the general cultural and linguistic background and all.

This is why as fun as it is to study languages, even though the Hispanic population in the US is booming, I probably will just pretend I know nothing of it when asked. I can't be part of the world that actually does things with languages.

These days people are big on saying, "Of course you can!" but there's a point when you have to admit that you've reached an impasse.

I much prefer being a quiet studier than a loud advertiser of my hobby. As has been discussed many a time on LLORG, people give you funny looks most of the time when you tell them about your weekend forays.

Oh well. It's not important if I get to speak Spanish or not. It'd be fun, but I'm not going to compromise business over it.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk for September 2024.

[eido]

Hi, all. Right now we're off to a snowy start in November where I'm at.

It's been over a month since I updated and I haven't been doing as much as I'd been doing in the past.

Though, I have moved into a more active role with my Spanish skills despite my initial reservations. I regularly speak to a child in Spanish at work, and while I make mistakes, I'm no longer as afraid of not being "accepted" into the fold, and the mistakes aren't grave. My goal is to move the Spanish language from one in his mind of being one that singles him out as a pariah to one that he can accept as part of himself. I switch between the two languages (English + Spanish) as comfortably as I can, and try to get him to feel comfortable as can be.

I may not be the best purveyor of the message of acceptance, but if we're to work together, I at least can try to make the experiences he has with me meaningful.

Speaking Spanish makes me feel useful, because I am helping out someone in need.

And despite not doing much in the way of studying, I've been doing a little. For instance, I've been using TalkPal to study Korean, Polish, and Icelandic, and LanguaTalk for Spanish. I've also been attempting to read Olly Richards' Short Stories in Icelandic. I also downloaded a version of the Bible in the form of an app on my phone in the Malagasy language. Recently I downloaded the digital version of Russian Assimil in English on my laptop as well. In addition, I have been reading TTMIK's stories on their proprietary app on my phone every now and then.

As usual, I'm cycling through all these resources in an attempt to build a holistic understanding of the world.

Progress is slow, but it hasn't stalled. And for that, I rejoice.

[eido]

I have some exciting news to report!

So I've spent a long time studying Korean, and I have done so for very specific reasons. I wanted to develop my intuition for learning languages and understanding Korean culture. Traditional, or "normal" language learning methods might be like picking up a bulgogi burger from McDonald's, but my method aimed to slowly simmer and cook the divine, like in the process of preparing naengmyeon or kalguksu.

As you can tell, I'm a noodle fan ( and therefore more of a delicate flower ). But I also enjoy thought experiments and deep learning of concepts. And Korean as a language and a cultural force has been on my mind for years, percolating into the perfectly monotonously-flavored broth that goes into various important dishes in South Korea. What has resulted within me is clean understanding and, in a word, satisfaction.

You may be asking, "What exactly did she do that's so key?"

Let me tell you.

For all this time I've been letting a repository of language knowledge build up in my brain so I could understand the fundamentals of a popular medium of Korean expression, i.e., K-pop (and a bit of K-indie). I didn't choose these genres necessarily because of any general attractiveness of the people purveying the songs or how wonderful their personalities seemed; much like celebrities in America (where I'm from), their interactions are scripted and planned. But there is no absence of them on YouTube or other streaming platforms, which makes it easy to access the content and try to peel comprehension off the faux wrapping, bit by bit, until you've achieved some semblance of mastery.

So since 2015 I've been listening to the same two K-pop groups' output, trying to get to know the "concepts" (as they're colloquially known) in the albums and music videos for cultural input, as well as to sharpen my general analysis skills. But I've also been consuming the celebs' stages personas and trying to memorize their schtick for the purpose of digesting language. Much as is often said on this forum, particular authors have turns of phrase they use to get their point across, or "verbal tics" as I like to call them. And if you're looking for various ways to sound natural in a new language, there's no better way, in my opinion, to pick a person you can tolerate and study their speech patterns - much like a method actor would, soaking up every mannerism to truly "get" them.

And it's not just really them you're trying to understand, because this isn't a movie about their life you're trying to integrate yourself into. You're trying to be you. Apparently Pablo Picasso said that it's critical to "learn all the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist," and I couldn't agree more. Speaking a language is performing culture, and, of course, no two people "perform" language the same.

That's why, in more diverse places, like America, for instance, language is not only a wider cultural marker but a stickier source of argument and/or debate: you have AAVE, you have other dialects of English influenced by all sorts of other dialects of Spanish, and people who never fully "assimilate" and simply speak enough of the lingua franca to get by, all the while becoming a driving force for linguistic change within subgroups and later society at large.

It's beautiful, really, living here and watching the stories of immigrants morph the landscape just as my ancestors did with their native language. However, my grandparents never commanded other immigrants to follow their lead and adopt their "-isms," and in their memory I wouldn't go to Korea and demand my native English become more important than Korean. That's why, if I ever get there, I want fluency, and I want to think like a person whose native tongue is Korean.

That was my goal with my project, and I think I've finally gotten to a passable stage that branches off naturally from where I began. I started listening to Korean variety shows and immersing myself like a baby might be, and I started teaching myself to read Hangul like a precocious three year-old, and although my precocity didn't reach into other areas of learning immediately like it might for a true child genius, it eventually paid off in the form of natural reading/processing speed in Korean, and my diet of K-music (along with gaining cultural context and analytical sharpness) and occasional reading of stories at my level (probably that of a kindergartner) got me to whir along in a way that makes me feel as though I'm an active participant in Korean culture, not just a wannabe.

I had my breakthrough the other day when I was listening to a song whose lyrics I'd never looked up the translation for, and because of my glossary of terms I'd memorized that are common in songs, amongst other things, I was able to understand the Korean parts of the song with an 80-85% accuracy rate, higher than I expected and which I'd ever done before. I kept going with more and more unfamiliar songs, and I intuitively understood them - so much so that when I looked up the English translation, the Korean and the English became separate again, and the Korean appeared more natural in my brain than ever did the English, which seemed a bit unpolished by comparison. But they remained equal in my mind.

And the Korean audio synched up with my reading of the lyrics at a much faster rate than it ever had before, to the point I was able to understand it "in time" with the beat at many points, aka without pause. The meanings of the words and phrases came to me like water flowing over stones in a mountain stream instead of being caught in a windpump for human alteration. They just were.

It was true beauty, and really, there aren't words to describe it.

I hope my writing here inspires someone to continue learning, and I'll have more updates likely as time goes by. Thank you.