PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

[PeterMollenburg]

...I'm currently working out all the rules. ...

Please translate the rules into Tayo Creole so I can put them into Anki, Quizlet, Memrise and LingQ. How else can I learn them?!

Sir, you are not entering into the club spirit.

Is this code for someone has been possessed by a ghostly/spritually like entity an' that? Pretty sure it is, mate.

[PeterMollenburg]

Okay....

So after a little mental to-ing and fro-ing, I've come to a language learning plan of sorts. It's nothing major, just needed to consider what I want out of life with regards to languages, which languages are important to me and at what levels and that kind of thing. No huge surprises and I think I've been here too much in the past which saw make make a fairly efficient decision fairly efficiently. Why waste the mental energy on it? Just get to the point, move on.

So with the nursing studies adding to pressures, as well as an incredibly hectic household of late that has seen the family the sickest we've ever collectively been over a winter period (boy will I be glad when September arrives = end of winter), as well as training (when not unwell), language learning and even use has really taken a bit of a dive.

It had me even pondering whether I wanted to continued with Norwegian, whether I want to go back to one of my more stable langauges (FR, NL) and taking them to a higher level finally. I was even regretting having not done that already given I now have to juggle several languages which I've never taken high enough to just let them coast while I focus on a new language.

Really, upon reflection, there's no finger pointing that needs to happen here. What's happened has happened and for good reasons. I made the choices I made as they felt right at the time and so here I am.

I am a little pulled by Spanish at the moment, since the course I'd love to complete more than any of all the far too many courses I own is Destinos. I also think I'm getting tired of Nils because or so many interruptions I'm not really getting through it even at a snails pace. But you know what, my idea of taking more languages into the B-levels and avoiding C-levels for now is a sound one I feel, for my children. I'd prefer to give them more languages at this stage than less, even if less is more (C-levels). I think I'm just unsettled, a bit stressed, a bit unwell, wanting a change (i.e. holiday with language learning material).

So I'll keep going with Norwegian. I'm going to try to do an hour per day. I'm also going to attempt to do a second hour on whatever days I can of French or Dutch, so that I'm chipping away at these bastards. If sport is teaching me something of late (ironically that I already knew from previous French study), it's that consistency is soooooo valuable. The years of training in a sport are like gradually turning your dirt floor house into a solid concrete slab with reinforced rio that gets stronger each year and allows for a more impressive building/structure above ground. Had I been chipping away at French over recent years, my foundation would be better than ever even if I wasn't aiming to sit a C-level exam.

So, I'll continue with The Mystery of Nils for Norwegian as my priority.

Where I find that second hour, some days it will be Dutch, some days it will be French. For Dutch I'll use VocabuLearn for some Dutch vocab review (I've prob forgot many words) and begin with yet another review of Hugo Dutch in 3 Months. For French I'm going to use Bien-dire (and maybe Think French) magazine(s) for some vocab study and I've decided to go through the newer Assimil French course (100 lessons) which I've never used. Just because I want to. Don't even try to tell me what I should be using, just engaging with these languages in any kind of study is an improvement over a nothing and it's how I choose to use my time (if there is the time).

[PeterMollenburg]

Well that was my first productive day of language study in some time. It's basic, but it's a win: 1 hour of Norwegian study with The Mystery of Nils followed by my first hour of Dutch study in a very long time. The vocab study from VocabuLearn and beginning revision of Hugo Dutch in 3 months went as it should at this stage - fast, easy, fluid. I could've done French too, given I'm off work for a couple of days, and not training as I recover from illness, but easy does it. The coming weeks are about forming habits and not hesitating to jump into that study when the moments are there for the taking.

Today I also finished off a Dutch book (De waanzinnige boomhut van 91 verdiepingen) with the kids with 60 minutes of reading aloud.

No dim-sims were consumed by the author during the making of this post (they were beforehand).

[PeterMollenburg]

Day 2...

Another hour of Norwegian with Nils.

And... I... ummm... might've fallen over and face-planted head first into some Spanish learning materials. No, well hold on, lemme explain. It just happened. My phone was there with the Destinos content ready to go and before I knew it, I ummm, had kinda done an hour of Spanish study.

+ 1 hour of French with Bien-dire and Assimil French.

I also read French aloud for just over an hour today to the kids (Graine d'ortie by Paul Wagner), along with reading 20 minutes Norwegian and 9 min Spanish also to the kids. Also 19 minutes of Dutch audio (VocabuLearn review) while driving on my own.

This might only last one more day, so I'll check back in in around a week for some more self confessions.

[PeterMollenburg]

Okay, I've kept up the study....

French
Well, I've not studied every day, but that wasn't the plan, nor would it be a realistic goal. As planned, I've been using Bien-dire (beginning with review of a magazine from 2004) for vocabulary study and Assimil French of which I'm on lesson 11.

Dutch
I decided to study the opposite language to the daily principal reading/watching/listening language with the kids. Meaning on a 'Dutch Day' where I'm more likely to engage with Dutch (especially reading), I'll study French after first getting through Norwegian then Spanish in that order. Therefore on a 'French Day' i'll possibly do some French reading with the kids, do some of my own Norwegian and maybe Spanish study and if time permits, then Dutch study if there's any time at the end of the day.

This plan which I only came up with today after already doing some Dutch study three days in a row now, means I'll potentially do more Dutch study over the next few days as we've just swapped to French days. It's ok, I'll get to French study in a few days when it revolves back to Dutch days. Confused? Me too! No, not really, but I don't blame you if you are.

So I'm halfway through a review of the first level of Dutch VocabuLearn, and up to Week 6 reviewing Hugo Dutch in 3 Months.

Spanish
I'm up to lesson 5 of Destinos: An Introduction to Spanish. I've been doing all exercises on the audio recordings, in the Textbook and Workbook (Part 1 for the moment), shadowing the video episodes and going over the transcripts/subtitles. Sounds like a lot of work, and once upon a time it truly was, but not anymore. A bit of reviewing and ALL this vocabulary comes flooding back, given I've been here literally 20 times before. If it wasn't for how good this course is, I'd probably vomit at first sight of these done to death exercises. Fortunately, I've kept my food down and if I keep up the momentum I'll be fine in a few weeks covering less frequented content.

Norwegian
I still find advancing in this language sluggish, but persevere I say. After many of the Norwegian neuro pathways have needed a good sweeping and tidying, I've finally started to edge forward with Nils, albeit rather slowly.


Well, tomorrow I'm back in my kayak after a prolonged winter illness. It'll be harder to study as well but I want to see what I can do. Norwegian is the priority as first study session most days. Spanish second and then French or Dutch. I'll drop back in a little while for an update on my progress (or lack of).

McBurg von Burgenstein

[PeterMollenburg]

End of August '24 update

Since getting down to business again and studying seriously and systematically, I've gathered renewed fervour for all the languages. As part of my summary I've decided to make a comparison for my level of enthusiasm for the learning of each of the languages, comparing how I currently feel when approach the learning of them, - ie how enthusiastic am I about each of my languages if I compare them to one another (not against other people).

Oh and it's a little early. The last day of the month is tomorrow, so I'll use some careful calculations to come up with the the final hours based on what I estimate to do for the rest of today and tomorrow. Bear in mind I've only become real serious about learning languages again after the month was around a couple of weeks in. I anticipate doing better in September. Still, lots of things to juggle and work around but determination is key.


French

Hours
Reading to the kids: 5 hours
Courses: 3 hrs 11 min
TV: 51 min
Vocabulary work: 2 hrs 36 min
TOTAL: 11 hrs 38min

Progress
Making my way through a particular 2004 Bien-dire publication (magazine), chipping away. On pages 12 and 13 out of 46. Have always enjoyed this resource. Excellent quality. I'm using it as others would use flashcards - to build vocabulary.

Assimil French - Lesson 21. Easy going, and as expected no difficulties thus far. Always enjoyed Assimil courses too. It's really a fair bit on the easy side, but I'm enjoying re-reading grammar explanations as well as shadowing dialogues, as well as making myself through another Assimil course.

Level of enthusiasm
Yeah, quite good. Between moderate and high.

Plans
Continue with current resources.


Dutch

Hours
Reading to the kids: 3 hrs 24 min
Audio: 47 min
Courses: 5 hours 55 min
Vocabulary work: 5 hours 15 min
TOTAL: 14 hours 17 min

Progress
VocabuLearn Level 1: On page 28 of 36.25 pages. Each page has around 40-ish vocabulary items (verbs, nouns, expressions etc) and progress is rather quick as I have completed this more than once, although not for several years now.

I'm in the middle of week 8 (out of 12) of Hugo Dutch in 3 Months. Progress is fluid, many things need a little strengthening in the good old memory banks, but nothing is difficult. Still it takes a little time as this is a thorough review. "Thorough review" = listening to all audio, reading through all grammar explanations and checking all understood as well as much comitted to memory (not all, some things are best left to take on board intuitively as many of these rules are now for me. Example- diminutive endings should be intuitive at this stage, so with some review and thorough memorisation of rules as I anticipate these should be intuitive at my stage of learning), checking all vocabulary can be translated bi-directional, translating conversations from EN to NL and shadowing the conversations, completing exercises verbally (not writing them, would waste time, already done this many a time), speaking every Dutch word aloud.

Level of enthusiasm
Between moderate and high as with French.

Plans
Finish Level 1 of VocabuLearn and move onto Level 2 for which I've only ever made it to page 13 out of 40, so the goal is uncharted territory for this resource.

Complete my thorough review of Hugo Dutch in 3 Months then move onto another previously used course.


Spanish

Hours
Reading to the kids: 1 hour 40 min
Courses: 19 hours 10 min
TOTAL: 20 hrs 50 min

Progress
I'm finishing off lesson 8 of Destinos: An Introduction to Spanish.

Level of enthusiasm
Very high. Very keen to progress through this resource as I love it to death. It's high time I actually progressed further.

Plans
As noted above, plenty of enthusiasm to progress.

First milestone will be to surpass last year's effort, which was the end of lesson 10. While doing the course last year I made comments (also in my log) at how almost dumbfounded I was at how much time had passed since I first attempted the course. In re-reading old answers to questions in the books from many years ago I was reading about my life in my early 20s and I'd stated how my father at that time according to the answers in some of my exercises was only a year older than me back then compared to me at the point in time (last year). Well, this time he is (was) exactly the same age as I am now. This means there's no going back, there's no dropping the course, it's time to get on with it for ****** sake.

Next milestone will be to make it to lesson 22 and complete the written exercises, as this is as far as I've gone in terms of writing.

Next milestone will be to go beyond lesson 26 as this is as far as I ever made it two and a half decades ago! At that time I rushed lessons 22 through 26 in preparation for an exam based on the Destinos content (this was my first forray into teaching myself languages, albeit guided by the universities for which I was using both French in Action and Destinos as I learned how to learn French and Spanish on my own). For the Spanish exam I didn't have the time to complete the written/audio exercises from lesson 22 onwards so I just watched the videos and glanced at vocabulary and new grammar rules from those lessons (I'd been procrastinating would you believe!).

Final goal: Completion of all 52 lessons (audio, written, reading, watching, you name it!). So, yes, I'm really on a mission here, but I need to be in for the longhaul trip. This course is a beast (watching the videos is child's play, doing ALL the activities is a hell of a lot of work and content), and I'm extremely busy. And of course, I don't want to forget everything I learn, so as with all these languages I intend to keep learning afterwards.


Norwegian

Hours
Reading to the kids: 1 hour 30 min
Courses: 21 hours 42 min
TV: 20 min
TOTAL: 23 hours 32 min

Progress
I'm on lesson 25 out of 26 of The Mystery of Nils. Finally I'm nearing the end after such a looooong time on this course and much stopping and starting. There's only been one exercise I've not completed and despite being the type who likes to complete everything, I don't care about that one, it just seemed a waste of time (using websites to work out how to take different modes of transport across the city and out of the city... useful maybe if I lived in Norway, but not here).

Level of enthusiasm
Moderate.

It's just not as pleasant learning Norwegian (as the other languages currently) simply because of two things. First I'm still in the beginning stages (and have been for a while). Yes Spanish is similar, however with Spanish I have an awesome resource, progress is lightening speed compared to Norwegian, as I'm re-learning previous studied content for Spanish and it has a phonetic system that makes for the fastest learned pronunciation of words for any language I've studied, and it's closer to my most advanced language (French). For Norwegian the resource is quite good but not as good as Destinos, I'm in uncharted (slower) learning territory, it's related to Dutch which is lower than my more advanced French which helps with Spanish in comparison and learning pronunciation of many words is painfully slow due to my desire to want to learn to apply the tones as well (I'm not dropping that practice, so don't even suggest it!).

Plans
To complete The Mystery of Nils soonish, keep reviewing the course for a long time after completed to reinforce vocabulary, improve grammar understanding and shadowing of many conversations I've never shadowed without pauses. While doing that, I'll start a new course. I'm not sure which, but currently considering either the Assimil course or returning to Sverre Klouman's Learn Norwegian. We'll see. It could come down to how much space I have in my little laptop bag that I jam pack with all my language learning material listed here for all languages. I do this so that I can take content with me to study when I know there'll be downtime (eg, breaks at work).




All in all very happy with my current approach to study, my progress (in a very busy daily life) and my plans. Throw a burger at another burger before eating the first burger after the second burger which you already ate tomorrow.

[DaveAgain]

French

Hours
Reading to the kids: 5 hours
Courses: 3 hrs 11 min
TV: 51 min
Vocabulary work: 2 hrs 36 min
TOTAL: 11 hrs 38min

Progress
Making my way through a particular 2004 Bien-dire publication (magazine), chipping away. On pages 12 and 13 out of 46. Have always enjoyed this resource. Excellent quality. I'm using it as others would use flashcards - to build vocabulary.
Plans
Continue with current resources.

I came across a mention of a French book targeted at parents, suggesting activities to extend their children's vocabulary and I thought it might be something that would interest you. La joie d'apprendre ensemble. (author plugging book on a TV programme).

EDIT
I searched the RadioFrance.fr website using the author's name as a search term, one programme he appears in together with the editor of a children's magazine called j'aime lire, is Comment transmettre le plaisir de lire aux enfants ?

[PeterMollenburg]

Studying multiple languages at once....



I'm currently going through some kind of bizarre stage with regards to my language learning. In the past I've studied 2, 3, 4 languages at once, and for a while just one (French) which, as a result of my success saw me advocate for one language only at a time, especially for beginner's. I think it's worth having a read of Cèid Donn's post below, which I really do think sums up very well the type of individual capable of learning languages. Actually, by 'capable' really I mean the type of individual wise enough and/or with enough language learning experience to understand what they're taking on. I think I could be that individual.

Many years ago I found out what it meant to learn multiple languages at once and struggle with progress, only to have it all fall apart as motivation for such a large project waned. I then found it what it really meant to take a language (Dutch) to B1 (once upon a time I thought 12 months of perhaps 60-90 minutes per day would make one 'fluent'). Then I learned what was needed to take a language beyond B2 (French) and how much time you can truly put into just one language - there never seemed to be enough time to learn one language really well, let alone more than one or worse still, several. These experiences, the failures, the stopping and starting, the gathered wisdom sometimes augmented by others who had their own experiences shaped my developing approach to language learning.

Then French became a working home language with my children and the various resources that aided French language use. Then Dutch re-entered the mix as the same, perhaps not quite as an equal with French, but vying for equality all the while English of course remained omnipresent in society and in the background of our children's lives.

I started to learn a new language. Stopped. Started again. Stopped again, et ainsi de suite... Fast-forward to the last few weeks and I'm experiencing my 25th resurrection of Spanish, Norwegian continues at A1, French at B2+, Dutch at B1+. And while I'm pursuing sporting interests and further work-related studies, I suddenly seem to be fitting in more languages that ever! Don't get me wrong, I'm under stress and lacking in sleep. Not idea for a father, an employee nor an aspiring athlete. Still, I'm determined to tweak the edges, make improvements where I can and fit all the languages in.

Norwegian comes first most days because it's my weakest language and my slowest to progress in. Spanish second. It's much faster, but realistically still several thousand miles behind my French. French and Dutch share a rotating study slot at the end of the day. If I get to French it means I'm actually on a Dutch day with the kids and have already possible read them some stories (although lately I'm struggling to find/make the time).

So, that's 3 hours of actual study time most days. I'm trying to get 2 hours done at home and where possible squeeze in the last hour either at work when possible or in the evening after everything else is done if I'm off. Sometimes I might even do some study in some random spot while out perhaps waiting for the kids to finish a structured swimming lesson or something else.

I recently said that I wouldn't take on more, as I really need to be careful not to just get greedier and greedier with more and more languages. However, were I to reduce my study of each language to 45 min/day I could take on one more - German. It's risky. I'll only have 45 min/day (less for Dutch and French, although I'm not 'worried' about them per sé).

However I am finding four languages is fine-ish. The hard part is being efficient enough to get enough rest and still be there to do everything else in my day all the while aiming to reduce stress. I'm trying to work with the idea of becoming more relaxed despite taking on more. I don't have any (or very little) confusion problems between languages at this stage, but German could change that. And is 45 minutes of Norwegian, Spanish and German (the other two are more advanced) really enough? Oh and I'm trying to actually make kayaking my priority over language learning, believe it or not.

I'm not sure, but maybe I'll just do it as an experiment. Even if I do succeed for a good while, though, will it be enough? What I mean is, 12 months of learning a language at 45 minutes a day will certainly bring familiarity, but it won't take me to B2. And à contre courant, what have I got to lose? Thoughts anyone?

Now I'm going to go and riffle through my collection of German learning materials and see if anying grabs me

Edit: Well oddly enough I unexpectantly wasn't really enthused enough to feel compelled to add German to the mix while riffling through my learning materials. I think it was a combination of no one single outstanding resource such as French in Action or Destinos, upon flicking through some materials the grammar didn't exactly look like a way to have fun (not that I've ever been put off by hard work in language learning, but German grammar is enough to turn anyone off), and I just got a sense of my Norwegian not being far enough along to survive the mental onslaught of German verb conjugations competing for space. So, that's it, no German for now. Interestingly it was the first language I learned/studied at 12 or 13 years old and I was very keen at that time. Well, the time's not right for now for this language. Still, if you've any comments to add, by all means, let's hear (read) it!


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from Cèid Donn below is taken from HerrSignore's thread and was not posted as a response to anything I've had to say, it just seemed relevant to my current situation:

How many languages can you realistically study at once?

I've been studying languages since the late 1980s so I've seen some things. Lots of theories. Lots of opinions. My general conclusion to questions like the OP's is 1) I don't know about you or anyone else but 2) usually fewer is more realistic, but more isn't impossible with several caveats. In other words, it depends on a lot of factors.

One of the biggest caveats that I've grown increasingly convinced matters a lot is one's personal experience with learning languages successfully as well as less than successfully. At my stage in life, I've had quite a bit of both. The importance of this isn't simply some snippets of wisdom you can pass down to other learners so to help them avoid pitfalls in their own journey. It is much more than that:

For one, you really need learn a lot about yourself--your strengths and weaknesses, your habits good and bad, where you are most likely to sabotage yourself, what you really want to get out of learning another language and what works best for you.

Secondly, you need acquire a certain level of expertise about self-learning, which is a much different enterprise than guided or classroom learning. You have to be able to hunt down resources and make choices about which resources will benefit you and about what kind of questions you need to ask and how to find the answers you need. And you need to cultivate the ability to constructively self-evaluate your methods and progress.

Lastly, over years of studying languages you should be able to acquire a kind of deeper intuition about how language works. This may be the most difficult ability to acquire in part because I'm convinced that it simply requires a lot of time and experience working with languages and requires also learning at least one language besides your native language to a fairly high level and also using it over a considerable amount of time. It's not sometime you get from fast-track learning 1 or 2 languages over a couple of years. But what this deeper intuition enables you to do is expend less conscious mental work in understanding how a new language "comes together" as a system. Things become much more transparent, and at least for me, much easier to remember long term, because from the start one's grasp of that language as a system is much better and deeper, and learning it just becomes a matter of putting things where they belong in that system. You understand at this point that a language can do X or it can do Y or maybe Z and it's matter of seeing the larger system and grasping that language's own logic that determines how it works the way it does. After that, things tend to fall into place.

If you are at this level of experience with learning languages, I think you can very easily study multiple languages at a time. The major issue then is really how much time you have to actually do the work, which is why I think a lot of multilingual people who could successfully study more than one new language still just focus on learning one language at a time. The alternative is to be like me and juggle multiple languages at various levels and spend a really big chunk of your day everyday studying languages.

None of this really challenges the conventional wisdom that if you haven't learned at least one language besides your native language to a high level (at least to a solid B2 level, I think most people would say), then it's probably best to focus on that for now, especially if you want to learn multiple languages later down the line. There's just no substitute for doing the ground work.

[iguanamon]

... Well, the time's not right for now for this language. Still, if you've any comments to add, by all means, let's hear (read) it!

PM, we all start out in language-learning with certain ideas about what we want to do and what we want to get out of the process. Some, enjoy the process more than they do actually using the language. Some enjoy the benefits of having gone through the process more than the process itself. I put myself into the latter category.

Whichever category or whatever gradation between them a learner may be is equally valid. The beauty of language-learning is that it can fit anywhere a learner wants it to fit. If the desired outcome is to learn the language to a high level and use it for exploring the TL culture(s), That's when I get disappointed to see a monolingual beginner studying multiple languages simultaneously. Statistically, they are unlikely to advance.

You have learned French to a high level. You use it in your daily life. You have integrated it into your family life. You have given yourself (and your kids) a huge gift. Having learned one second language to a high level has shown you how much work and effort it takes to get there and also, how to learn on your own- what works; what works best; what dead-ends to avoid.

Ultimately, if you want to learn a dozen languages at the same time, go for it. Of course, time is the major limiting factor. There is never enough of it in a day! Energy and motivation can tend to wane over time, too. Family and work is always a priority. I don't know how you have managed to do all that you do given those constraints. I commend you.

So, I've got no advice for you. I just know, for me, I can't have multiple low-level languages on the go at the same time and make any progress with them. I guess I just don't have the "bandwidth" for it... but... that's just me.

Probably, if I were in your shoes (speaking as myself), I'd concentrate on bringing Dutch to a level equal to my French. Then, I'd move on to Spanish or Norwegian. Both will benefit from your experience with French and Dutch. German would be much easier after Dutch and Norwegian. Spanish is easier after French. In my own experience I learned Portuguese after Spanish; Ladino after Portuguese; Haitian Creole after Ladino; Lesser Antilles Creole French after HC; Catalan after those. I don't know where my language journey may take me next. Playing around with Italian is fun. Learning French would be a logical next move given my background. German would be a language I could use with friends here. There's a Palestinian community here so learning Arabic would make sense. I know some Russian-speakers. I may not know much about language-learning, but I know I can't learn all those languages at the same time, despite similarities in French and Italian with my other learned languages.

I'll let you in on a secret, I think learning a second foreign language (even a similar one) after the first to a high level gives a learner a somewhat different insight into language-learning. There's a winnowing involved, almost a distillation, in the process of learning a language. I think it helps me to concentrate on what's most important to know and I spend (or at least try to spend) less time following "dead ends" along the way. I am more focused. I can see why and where a course is taking me, what I need to supplement my learning, when I need to concentrate more and give myself more time with a certain grammatical construct. I know how to make even a bad course serve me well. Getting through a course is the easy part. Most of my learning comes after the course, which is the hard part. These are my insights. That just comes from experience, I reckon.

Any time we make a grand plan, the universe has a chuckle. Life happens and constantly gets in our way. The more working parts involved in a mechanism or a process, the more that can go wrong or astray. Being able to adapt and adjust is the key in this crazy chaotic thing we call life. Myself, I like to keep things simpler so when the inevitable monkey wrench (spanner) gets thrown into the works, it's easier for me to roll.

What I've written above is just me. At this point in your language journey, PM, just do what you want to do. As long as you are content with it, that is what's important. It doesn't matter what I may think.

[Le Baron]

I see friction here. A statement to oneself something like: 'I need to get all my languages moving and to a better level.' But also 'I have loads of other things to do and want to devote time to them all.' Something has to give. As in the old exercise maxim: you can work long and you can work intensively, but you can't do both. The sprinter goes all out for about 15 seconds. The long distance runner paces himself over a longer time at a lower intensity, but eventually gets there. Old principle, hare and the tortoise. Also they are highly focused on one thing.

If anyone is going to do lots of things at the same time they can't possibly do them intensively, so lower intensity and the principle of time has to be factored in.

I liked the quoted post, some good advice in it, but I'm sceptical of elevating the 'types of learner' theory. Cainntear has spoken about this (if he hasn't he'll definitely come and tell me so ). Despite the talk about being this sort of learner or that sort of learner and evaluating personal strengths and weaknesses - not a bad thing to do - the fact is that everyone has to do pretty much the same things. We see that people acknowledge this, but then contradict it by saying there are 'types' of learners'. Well, so long as you're the type who is willing to listen to lots of speech and read lots of prose and work out problems you meet in those, and also work towards developing the speaking reflex, everything is usually fine.

You seem to have chosen the tweaking and improving many languages over time strategy, which is the result of your long experience of learning. Personally I think that to get good at anything, you have to do that thing and focus on it fairly intensely, then relax for a few months, then be intense again for a few months, repeat. I also think that doing two 'beginner-early intermediate' languages (Norwegian/Spanish) side by side is too much bother. But that's just me.