JLS log - Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Chinese, Japanese

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golyplot
Black Belt - 1st Dan
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Re: JLS log - Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Chinese, Japanese

Postby golyplot » Thu Jun 20, 2024 2:49 pm

Strangely, in Georgian, "mama" means father (and mother is "deda").

In Japanese, none of the native parent words use "ma" at all, though they did later import "mama" from overseas.
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JLS
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Re: JLS log - Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Chinese, Japanese

Postby JLS » Thu Jun 20, 2024 5:13 pm

golyplot wrote:Strangely, in Georgian, "mama" means father (and mother is "deda").

In Japanese, none of the native parent words use "ma" at all, though they did later import "mama" from overseas.


It's one more reason why Japanese is such a fascinating language.
1 x
My philosophy of language learning:

“Master your instrument, master the music, and then forget about all that (stuff) and just play.” - Charlie Parker, jazz musician

JLS
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Re: JLS log - Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Chinese, Japanese

Postby JLS » Sat Jun 22, 2024 12:55 pm

I have memorized the whole of 主祷文. 能说! I can say it from memory!

Now I will work on writing it from memory. I will also practice sight-reading what I have memorized.

Whether reading, writing, speaking, or hearing, they are all triggering roughly the same essential things. It's good for practice to shake up how you practice. We need variation, and the variation adds new dimensions to the things we study.

In this process I've discovered another joy: what used to be hard, becomes basic and simple. A clear sign of some real progress.
3 x
My philosophy of language learning:

“Master your instrument, master the music, and then forget about all that (stuff) and just play.” - Charlie Parker, jazz musician

JLS
Orange Belt
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:53 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (conversational), Mandarin (beginner), Koine Greek (proficient reader), Biblical Hebrew (intermediate), Latin (past first year level)
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Re: JLS log - Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Chinese, Japanese

Postby JLS » Tue Jun 25, 2024 11:56 am

I've done what all I'm going to do with 主祷文 for now. For speaking, I have it completely memorized. I cannot yet write it all perfectly from memory, though I have learned 46 new kanji in the process. I am not pressing on to perfect memorization in writing, because I suspect the characters I don't quite know yet are some of the less common. I've got limited time, so I need to apportion time to what is going to get me the farthest, the quickest. I suspect I'll encounter those words frequently enough in the course of learning.

I bought a new book. See here. I bought the same kind of book for Japanese a month ago and really liked it. It gives vocabulary for many common things of life. The kids like Chinese, so I could use this to assign them some fun copy work. I used to have something like this for Spanish, and I found it highly useful.
4 x
My philosophy of language learning:

“Master your instrument, master the music, and then forget about all that (stuff) and just play.” - Charlie Parker, jazz musician

JLS
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Re: JLS log - Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Chinese, Japanese

Postby JLS » Fri Jun 28, 2024 12:44 pm

I received an email from a friend entirely in Chinese. Perfect! A piece of informal native Chinese that I can analyze! And I have a certain conversational context to interpret it in!

My plan is to study every kanji and use Google Translate voice to help me with pronunciation (which is decent as a pronunciation guide). Yes it's slightly robotic, and it uses no emotional inflection, but it's decent for pronunciation and rhythm of pronunciation.

I went through the first line, which said 很高兴接到你的电邮!

I've seen and practiced 很高兴 many times. No issue there. 你的 is second-nature to me.

I've never seen 接到 together, but I've practiced 到 as 直到 from my previous text of study, 主祷文。接到 and 直到 mean entirely different things (receive v. [equivalent] until/on into), but both have 到. I have a new context for this hanzi, but I don't need to learn two new hanzi--just one.

电邮 - Email - My Chinese picture dictionary has "email" as 电子邮件。That seems like a long word for "email," but perhaps the four-kanji version is more formal and proper while the two-kanji version is more informal.

I find that repetition of phenomes and kanji happen in surprising and regular ways. You learn new words, but like in English you are learning combinations of similar/same sounds that make up new words.

Like ab- in English:

- Abstain - Stay away from
- Absent - Not present
- Abnormal - Out of the normal
- Abdicate - To step out of authority

Look for the repetition. Look for those interchangeable sounds, words, etc. They ease the learning curve!
4 x
My philosophy of language learning:

“Master your instrument, master the music, and then forget about all that (stuff) and just play.” - Charlie Parker, jazz musician

JLS
Orange Belt
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Re: JLS log - Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Chinese, Japanese

Postby JLS » Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:33 pm

Little by little I'm moving forward! I'm listening to audio passively, and I'm catching words that I've learned by both speaking and copying exercises. The snowball is packed and rolling!
3 x
My philosophy of language learning:

“Master your instrument, master the music, and then forget about all that (stuff) and just play.” - Charlie Parker, jazz musician

JLS
Orange Belt
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:53 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (conversational), Mandarin (beginner), Koine Greek (proficient reader), Biblical Hebrew (intermediate), Latin (past first year level)
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Re: JLS log - Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Chinese, Japanese

Postby JLS » Wed Jul 03, 2024 12:34 pm

When learning a language there's little things you learn to push through, although they are annoying in themselves.

For example, the kanjis 愿 and 原。The pronunciations are yuàn and yuán. They look nearly the same, and sound nearly the same. But we have it in English: There, their, they're. They look similar, and they sound nearly the same. Just have to work through it.
4 x
My philosophy of language learning:

“Master your instrument, master the music, and then forget about all that (stuff) and just play.” - Charlie Parker, jazz musician

JLS
Orange Belt
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:53 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (conversational), Mandarin (beginner), Koine Greek (proficient reader), Biblical Hebrew (intermediate), Latin (past first year level)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15664
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Re: JLS log - Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Chinese, Japanese

Postby JLS » Thu Jul 04, 2024 3:20 pm

Memorize, struggle, then let it sit. The memory really does form itself while you rest.

I find that it's always difficult to memorize a sentence in a foreign language, and perhaps difficult the next day to review. However, after a few dedicated rounds the sentence will stick. If done persistently, the sentence will stay well enough that you can freely think on it and analyze it in your head.

Be patient with learning. Times of rest and letting the brain settle are important as well.
3 x
My philosophy of language learning:

“Master your instrument, master the music, and then forget about all that (stuff) and just play.” - Charlie Parker, jazz musician

JLS
Orange Belt
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:53 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (conversational), Mandarin (beginner), Koine Greek (proficient reader), Biblical Hebrew (intermediate), Latin (past first year level)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15664
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Re: JLS log - Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Chinese, Japanese

Postby JLS » Tue Jul 09, 2024 11:32 am

Chinese
I confess, the inability to sight-read Chinese is quite a roadblock to quick progress. There's no solid clue in the kanji as to what the kanji sounds like.

I've practiced handwriting many kanji, and I'm getting an idea of all the basic lines, structures, dots, etc. that you find in them; but after a while the kanji all end up looking the same. Just means I need to find a right way to think about them.

I am sure that Chinese children pick up kanji without writing each one 20x over. Considering too that languages are spoken before written, if I focus on the speaking and thinking and hearing elements, it will give a mental hook when learning the kanji.

I find that I can compose in Chinese, so long as it is by computer. I know enough to discern in some instances between the right and wrong kanji selection. But then, if I did it by handwriting then perhaps though it takes longer, it would cement deeper.

In any case, my hope is to take the sentences and phrases and words I have learned, play with them, master them, and use them freely like a musician.

Still working through my friend's Chinese letter.

Spanish
I've gotten Spanish back into my routine. I composed a short four-paragraph essay in the last few days. I'm sure there's much "Anglicized Spanish" in it, though I'm slowly trekking towards natural.
5 x
My philosophy of language learning:

“Master your instrument, master the music, and then forget about all that (stuff) and just play.” - Charlie Parker, jazz musician

JLS
Orange Belt
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:53 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (conversational), Mandarin (beginner), Koine Greek (proficient reader), Biblical Hebrew (intermediate), Latin (past first year level)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15664
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Re: JLS log - Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Chinese, Japanese

Postby JLS » Wed Jul 10, 2024 12:09 pm

Genius is not so much a great mind as it is a willingness to be bored.

I don't remember who said it, but the idea is this: to reach genius, you have some drudgeries to endure to get there. For example, staying on the same page of Chinese vocabulary until you get it may not seem fun, and you want to move on, but if you don't endure the boredom then you can't progress. Growth is not always flashy or exciting.

Speaking of Chinese, I remembered that languages are spoken before they are written. The Chinese kanji are not natural to my Western brain, but speaking is natural to anyone. I have found it a great help to read texts in Greek over and over and over out loud, and this helps internalize the texts. I can do the same with a page of Chinese vocabulary, or a piece of writing, so long as I have the pinyin.

It takes longer for the kanji to stick, but the pinyin and the sound of speaking stick much more quickly. Once those are embedded, I have a place to put the kanji in my mind.

I think I enjoy the art of learning as much as I do the learning itself.
4 x
My philosophy of language learning:

“Master your instrument, master the music, and then forget about all that (stuff) and just play.” - Charlie Parker, jazz musician


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