Rdearman 2016-23 I’m not superstitious, just a little stitious.

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rdearman
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Re: Rdearman 2016-23 I’m not superstitious, just a little stitious.

Postby rdearman » Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:35 pm

<RANT>
I am officially sick and tired of being sick and tired. I've not done much of anything other than listen to Pimsleur, and I'm frequently switching between feelings of homicide and suicide. I remember now why I hated FSI French drills and Pimsleur. I have listened to over 9 hours of some creepy git hassling co-workers for lunch. Everytime creepy man says: "Do you remember how to say ... "

NO! No! No! I don't *&^$ing remember how to say it! Screw you creepy guy!

Then some smiling woman popped up in a video on my YT home page, "I learned Mandarin studying at home for 6 months." Well, good for you, I hope you rot in hell. Thanks, YouTube algorithm! Just what I needed today, some smarmy cow telling me how smart she is and highlighting how stupid I am.

Screw languages! Why did I ever start this crap to begin with? I should just throw all this crap in the rubbish bin and just be like everyone else and sit around watching porn and eating pizza in my underwear. ARRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!


</RANT>
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Carmody
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Re: Rdearman 2016-23 I’m not superstitious, just a little stitious.

Postby Carmody » Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:08 pm

Thank you; thank you.

Your comments remain unique in their honest encouragement to the learner that although the way is not always easy and yes often grueling and frustrating but that honest effort makes the fruits of that effort all the sweeter.
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daveprine
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Re: Rdearman 2016-23 I’m not superstitious, just a little stitious.

Postby daveprine » Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:02 pm

rdearman wrote:Screw languages! Why did I ever start this crap to begin with? I should just throw all this crap in the rubbish bin and just be like everyone else and sit around watching porn and eating pizza in my underwear. ARRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!

How the pizza got in your underwear in the first place, I'll never know....and don't want to know.....
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Re: Rdearman 2016-23 I’m not superstitious, just a little stitious.

Postby IronMike » Thu Jan 26, 2023 1:29 am

rdearman wrote:<RANT>
I am officially sick and tired of being sick and tired. I've not done much of anything other than listen to Pimsleur, and I'm frequently switching between feelings of homicide and suicide. I remember now why I hated FSI French drills and Pimsleur. I have listened to over 9 hours of some creepy git hassling co-workers for lunch. Everytime creepy man says: "Do you remember how to say ... "

</RANT>

I'll take all your Italian books. I'll PM you my address and Venmo you for shipping.
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rdearman
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Re: Rdearman 2016-23 I’m not superstitious, just a little stitious.

Postby rdearman » Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:49 pm

So rather than going off on one, I figured I should do an actual update.

I've dropped Pimsleur for the moment. I cannot take doing so many hours of it. I've switched back to reviewing what, in theory, I already know. I had previously generated a PDF file with all the screenshots from all my lessons in Korean. This amounted to 23 pages with 184 images. I printed out all 23 pages and I trim out the screenshot and then glue it on to a piece of graph paper. (example in image below) I translate all the Korean in the screenshot (my teacher only writes in Korea, very rarely an English word) and rewrite the Korean. So all the English in that image is what I've translated in order to use them as notes.
korean_shot.png
korean_shot.png (99.03 KiB) Viewed 72 times

This forces me to review all the Korean words and sentences I've been given. It also forces me to review the verbs and grammar that I was taught. So far, I have managed to rewrite 17 screenshots (about 3 pages. Only 20 to go!). This exercise is taking me about one or two hours per 8–10 images. I am remembering a lot of stuff I had forgotten. I'm also trying to use the words, grammar, and sentences I'm reviewing by speaking out loud.

Is this going to help me with speaking? No, probably not. Is it helpful? Seems to be for me. Doing this is a low stress activity, and it means that I haven't just thrown out all the books, deleted all the electronic files and stopped even attempting to learn Korean. Winding it all back to a simple desk exercise is helpful.

I've got a couple of new language exchange partners for Italian and French. I spoke for some time this week in French, and I've got a few hours scheduled for next week in both languages. I've also been working with my Korean LE partner. Basically, she is talking to me only in Korean for 5–10 minutes. She writes in the chat window what she is saying if I don't understand, and later when we switch to English she explains it and I copy it down. This seems to work OK.

===== DO NOT READ BEYOND THIS POINT IF YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR ME PISSING AND MOANING AGAIN =====
Carmody wrote:Your comments remain unique in their honest encouragement to the learner that although the way is not always easy and yes often grueling and frustrating but that honest effort makes the fruits of that effort all the sweeter.

Sometimes I think I'm the poster boy for "How NOT to learn a language."

As you can probably tell from the last "update" I'm pretty frustrated with language learning at the moment. I'm not making any progress, and I am beginning to think Korean is impossible for me to learn. This week, I had another conversation where people make crazy assumptions.

My daughter sent me a photo of a sign in Japanese and asked me what language it was and what it said.
I said it is Japanese, but I have no idea what it says.
She asked, but if you can't read it, how do you know it is Japanese?
I replied, I did spend 2 years in Okinawa, so I recognise the script, but can't read it.
But if you spent 2 years there, why don't you speak it?
Err... because I was 21 single and spent every weekend and most weekdays partying and drinking with my military buddies. We never learned anything other than how to make mixed drinks.
So my other daughter says, "But you learned French in a couple of years, and you weren't even in France."
Sigh... I couldn't be bothered to explain all the hard work, listening to CD's and French radio during my 3-hour commute, reading, speaking. And it took way more than 2 years. More like 6 before I could hold a decent conversation, and I'm even losing that now.

Language learning is tedious, boring, and difficult. But for some people it is easy.

I realise I shouldn't compare myself to others, and should only compare myself to my past self. But this is a difficult thing to do. I have spent 15–20 years to get to what is B2 at best in Italian and French (No I have never taken a test, so it is probably worse than that). Some people do C1 in a year, and C2 in 2 years, then moan about it taking too long because they want to move on to something else like German or Spanish.

Now, there is a good chance that I'm doing it wrong. I'm probably not using the best methods, or courses. I'm certainly more lazy than most people on this forum. I'm definitely not the smartest person on the planet, and I'm not willing to sit at a desk and study for 7–9 hours per day. But in areas outside of languages, I learn lots of stuff very quickly. Which is what leads to my frustration. If it took me ages to learn everything, then I wouldn't be so annoyed.

I don't like learning languages, I only like having learned a language. And even then I do a half-assed job of it, I never write in any language other than English. Oddly, I have probably written more in Korean than I ever have in French or Italian.

So for now, I'm going to ratchet everything back and do low stress stuff like language exchanges in FR & IT and just review my Korean. :|
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rdearman
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Re: Rdearman 2016-23 I’m not superstitious, just a little stitious.

Postby rdearman » Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:50 pm

daveprine wrote:
rdearman wrote:Screw languages! Why did I ever start this crap to begin with? I should just throw all this crap in the rubbish bin and just be like everyone else and sit around watching porn and eating pizza in my underwear. ARRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!

How the pizza got in your underwear in the first place, I'll never know....and don't want to know.....

I put it there to keep it warm.
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: 5 / 17 17 Italian Paperbacks to Read: 4006 pages

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The Autodidactic Podcast
The Lollygagging Podcast

I often post on this forum using mobile devices, so please excuse short messages and typos.

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rdearman
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Re: Rdearman 2016-23 I’m not superstitious, just a little stitious.

Postby rdearman » Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:51 pm

IronMike wrote:
rdearman wrote:<RANT>
I am officially sick and tired of being sick and tired. I've not done much of anything other than listen to Pimsleur, and I'm frequently switching between feelings of homicide and suicide. I remember now why I hated FSI French drills and Pimsleur. I have listened to over 9 hours of some creepy git hassling co-workers for lunch. Everytime creepy man says: "Do you remember how to say ... "

</RANT>

I'll take all your Italian books. I'll PM you my address and Venmo you for shipping.

Venmo don't work in the UK. :lol:
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: 5 / 17 17 Italian Paperbacks to Read: 4006 pages

My YouTube Channel
The Autodidactic Podcast
The Lollygagging Podcast

I often post on this forum using mobile devices, so please excuse short messages and typos.

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Le Baron
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Re: Rdearman 2016-23 I’m not superstitious, just a little stitious.

Postby Le Baron » Sun Jan 29, 2023 1:05 am

<Not a rant, but possibly boring>

You know, I understand the frustration and despising language learning. I'm guessing though that it can't have been all misery all the time (also known as AJATT) or I doubt you'd have punished yourself for this many years...er decades!

I have actually thrown away, or at least given away, books and some complete courses because I grew frustrated and burnt-out on languages. When I stopped Cantonese I felt very hard-done-by and actually as though I was being hampered by unfair circumstances.. Such as 'why the footling HELL can't I get to Hong Kong for a year? Why?!!' I realise now that I was experiencing the pain of a sunk cost (though maybe reality rather than 'fallacy'). And also feeling like a twerp because I'd poured in a few years; admittedly on the strength of trying to get Mary Pang to go out with me and then 'Dorothea' to not stop going out with me. These are good reasons for starting, but perhaps not ones with longevity behind them. Luckily I like Chinese culture, but probably chose the wrong variety of Chinese.

I failed to even get started on Japanese and by that time I was "wise" enough to tell myself to back away now before it turned into a fiasco. How the hell could I learn Japanese anyway when I was trying to reinvigorate my Russian? These are big demands and back then one could hide it away better. I was studying in my bedroom mostly or the library and really I didn't tell that many people. So I didn't have those people saying: 'well, can you speak any Russian then? Come on say something!' and putting on Russian films and demanding that I translate it in real time. Here on the internet you have to not only expose yourself, but also face competition from people who are (or say they are) absolutely whizzing through Japanese/Russian/Korean/Arabic while we are doing a Stan Laurel face at A1.

I think it might be even worse the more facility you have in one or more extra languages. I got to thinking at the start of last year, how come I'm having such a hard time with Spanish, a notoriously "easy" language, when I've battled "hard" ones? And when I know another romance language? Suspecting cognitive decline. I know people these days, or any days perhaps, don't like saying to themselves that they probably should not do certain things they desire so so badly, but don't seem to be doing so well with. This is strangely seen as failure, rather than astute self-knowledge.

I can talk like this now because I'm currently not actively learning anything and thus feeling no immediate pain. You know yourself though, as Carmody said, that it's what makes the fruit sweeter when it comes. I have to agree about the fellow in Pimsleur though, he's a stalker and mildly irritating.
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