Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

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Iversen
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Sun May 01, 2022 3:20 pm

GER: Ich habe das Wort nicht überprüft, bevor ich es geschrieben habe, aber es gibt tatsächlich einige andere, die es auch verwendet haben, z.B hier (Spektrum):

Bereits in den primären Sinnesarealen vereinigen sich sensorische mit Bewegungsreizen. Bisher hatte man angenommen, diese Vermischung finde erst auf höheren Verarbeitungsstufen statt.

Das Wort bezieht sich auf die Teile des Gehirns, die Sinneseindrücke verarbeiten und die dabei helfen aus alte Erinnerungen künstliche Welten zu konstruieren, während wir träumen. Natürlich werden die gleichen Gehirnzentren auch aktiv, wenn wir uns etwas vorstellen, es sei Bilder, Geräusche (einschließlich menschliche Sprache) oder Gerüche oder was auch immer.

Ich hätte übrigens besser "Schlafwandeln" als "Schlafwanderungen" benutzen sollen - dies ist als echten Sprachfehler einzustufen!

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Le Baron » Sun May 01, 2022 4:01 pm

'Schlafwanderungen' dagegen wirkt poetischer glaube ich. Betreffend das Wort 'Sinnesarealen' Ich lerne gerne neue Wörter. Es gibt viele, die rechtmäßig verwendet werden, aber (noch) nicht im Wörterbuch stehen, also werde ich sie nicht verwerfen.
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Iversen
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Tue May 03, 2022 7:04 pm

Today's report will be utterly boring, but luckily also short. Yesterday I studied a text about slow loris (a small group of Strepsirrhine primates from Southern Asia, most from Indonesia), and when I wanted to note down some new words I happened to notice that I had three incomplete sheets with Indonesian wordlists - and then I spent the rest of the day filling out those pages so that I ended up with 5 halfpages of 90-100 words each, which I now have to subject to the usual repetition process which is indispensable to make the words stick. I could have done that today, but instead I ended up doing repetitions of my Greek wordlists - about 250 words.

In case you haven't met the word "Strepsirrhine" before it means loris, galagos, pottos and lemurs, but NOT tarsiers, which today are seen as members of the competing group haplorrhini, which also counts new-world and old-world monkeys and apes, including us. They are also known as 'wetnosed' primates, and as 'half monkeys' in colloquial Danish ("halvaber") - although those that use that word mostly don't know that the tarsiers have been moved.

The haplorrini have a membrane around the nostrils, which in theory should make their noses less wet - but is doesn't always work that way. They separated from the Strepsirrhini during the eocene period more than 60 mio. years ago, and the tarsiers somehow got onboard the haplorrhini boat... ([NO:] ...mens det omvendt er en del usikkerheit kring dei kladistiske plassering av Darwinius "Ida" fra just eocen, som Naturhistorisk museum i Oslo kjøpte for 4.500.000 NKK. Men det gjør jo ikkje ho mindre søt.

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My goodnight reading yesterday was the Icelandic magazine Lifandi Visindi which I have had standing on my 'bed-chair' (no room for a table) for ages - but I fell asleep after just one page about the navigational skills of birds.

INDO: Kukang merupakan kelompok Strepsirrhini yang hidup di Asia, khususnya di Indonesia. Mereka memiliki mata yang besar dan merupakan hewan nokturnal, dan mereka memiliki sesuatu yang hanya dimiliki beberapa mamalia lain: spora berbisa. Tetapi karena mereka lambat, mungkin mengejutkan bahwa ada waktu untuk menggunakan trek melawan musuh. Mereka terancam karena beberapa orang mereka memakannya, yang lain mencoba menjadikannya sebagai hewan peliharaan - tetapi mereka sulit untuk tetap hidup, mereka tidur di malam hari dan mereka tidak terlalu ramah. Silakanlah serahkan pada alam dan kebun-kebun binatang.

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Sun May 08, 2022 10:34 pm

I haven't written anything in this thread since last Tuesday, but there is a reason for that. I have visied my mother again, and there I actually read a text collection in Indonesian in bed ... but then I watched some TV programs about paleontology, and in one of them the topic was the history of crocs. And when I then came home I couldn't resist the temptation to do something similar to the overviews I made for the Mammals and their ancestors some time ago. And then I was hooked ...

First I noticed that I had to do the amphibians first. Their development starts with coelecanths and lungfish and critters like Tiktaalik who changed their fins into legs during the Devonian period some 400 mio. years ago, and then a series of amphibians had a golden age during the ensuing Carbon era. Then some animals found out how to encapsulate their eggs so that they didn't have to drop them into water - and I had to find out who those guys were before I could get anywhere with my reptilians. There is a group called "Amniotes" which is defined by the invention of watertight eggshells, but the learned ones aren't quite sure where to put it in relation to the amphibians - and there my problems start. There is a lot of cladistical tables in Wikipedia, which is my main source, but sometimes they contradict each others, and then I have to find out how to combine them and choose something plausible. So in the end I had to trace the road to the crocs through a maze of conflicting tables - and along the route I had to leave something aside.

So I started out with the Sarcopterygii (blue fish, lungfish etc.), arrived at the Tetrapoda (fourlegged critters), where there is a bifurcation, one leading to the Amphibians, the other to the Reptiliomorpha (=Diadectomorpha + Amniota) - the Diadectomorpha is an extinct sister group to the Amniota. However it's the Amniota that leads to a new bifurcation with one branch 'Synapsida' leading to the mammals and the other to the reptiles (and dinos and birds). And then there is a new bifurcation where the amniota are divided into Parareptilia and Eureptilia, and within the latter I have to postpone the Lepidosaurimorpha (snakes, lizards and the tuatara) and choose the Archosauromorpha, where I have to exclude the Pantestudinae (tortoises and turtles) and continue with the Archosauriformes, and then I get to the Archosaurians where I have to stick to the Pseudosuchia because the alternative route (the Avemetatarsialia) leads to dinosaurs and birds.

All this may sound quite simple, but the problem is that the birds have been roaming all over the place, and even though almost all paleontologists now agree that birds arose from within the dinosaurs there are still clades that try to connect crocs and birds and push the dinosaurs away - and I have to discover that and make my own choices. Luckily there are so many facts nowadays on the internet (especially in Wikipedia) that I don't have to eat one single interpretation raw just because it is printed in a book. And even though not all species in the world are described and depicted in the Wikipedias most are, and through Google I can fill out some holes. Of course I don't include all those species in my files - there are 683 members of the family Microhylidae alone (commonly known as narrow-mouthed frogs) according to the Frog Portal, and most don't even have an English name... but I choose some representative species for my Amphibian file. The numbers are not quite as high with crocs, and right now there are just 27 or 28 crocs on the planet - but in my Croc file I also describes the cornucopia of running and vegetarian and otherwise weird crocs from the past plus a lot of extinct animals that just looked like crocs without belonging to them.

And it all takes time. I have so far covered the mammals (according to the new setup where the whales are included in the eventoed Ungulates and the elephants are put as far as possible from rhinos and hippos as possible) plus the amphibians, crocodiles and turtles with one Word file for each, but I still have to do something about the lizards and snakes and pterosaurs and dinosaurs (including the birds), so ... well, I can't both study paleontology and languages fulltime, and right now I mostly use English because that's where most of my information is found.

One effect of this work is that I get more and more impressed by the ultra-nerds who collect all the information for me and put it on the internet for free.

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Iversen
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Fri May 13, 2022 10:12 pm

Once more I went on a a family visits, which meant that I had to leave the reptiles dangling in the air between monitor lizars and goannas for a couple of days. Wnen I returned I finished them, but I had to divide them down the middle. In my childhood things were rather simple: there were lizards and snakes and corocs and turtles plus a few small groups, like the tuatura which apparently didn't notice that all its relatives had died out. And there were 8000 some living reptile species when I was young. Now there are more than 10.000, and the whole structure has been turned on its head. If you look at the cladogram for the "squamata" (reptiles and snakes) then you can see that the varanidae now have left the lizards and skinks and joined a new group named "toxicofera" (poison bearers) because the new wisdom is that the dragons did not just had severe halitosis and polluted spit, but actually were poisonous - like the boas and pythons and natter and co. which were seen as unpoisonouos in my youth, but now the learned ones have changed their mind about that - and molecular analyses seem to confirm that the toxifera actually are related.

There is one more ting, but you can't see it: where are the mosasaurs?? Their absence might be a symptom of a legendary battle within the close-knit paleontological community. The problem is that they first were placed in the vicinity of lizards (Cuvier 1808), then near the snakes (Cope 1869), and then sent back to the lizards by Lewis in 1923 - until Lee & co. opened the whole can of worms again and sent them right back into the snake pit. And as far as I can judge this has now become the accepted truth, but in the meantime the serpents have become members of the toxicofera, and I can't see that any of the cladograms that connect serpents and mosasaurs take heed of that development. The clado for the squamata has apparently solved the problem by simply leaving those bothersome mosasaurs out hoping that nobody would miss them - and then it suddenly fell to me as a mere amateur that have to integrate them again.

In my last message I mentioned that I have had to stick to English for most tasks in my project, simply because that's where most of the specialized information is. Occasionally I have used the other language variants of Wikipedia, but I have chosen to find English names for all animals species if possible, simply because it would have been a total mess to mix names in a dozen languages - and when Wikipedia didn't have the 'common name' for some animal then I sometimes could find one in other sources like the reptile-database - I have also used Google to supplement the images of critters in Wikipedia, but in some cases there are simply no accessible photos of some rare critter from the jungle on the internet. On the other hand some animals have been burdened with a dozen different common and even more scientific names, and without the two-part scentific names the whole animal would have been an impenetrable chaos (as it was until Linnaeus wawed his magic wand and brought clarity into the darkness).

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I still have to do the dinosaurs (incl. the birds) and Pterodactyles so I'll be busy the next couple of days - but having done the reptiles in two days net is already a big success, and I know that it can be done.

And languages? Well, since my study at home is jeopardized for the time being I have tried to be slightly more diligent during my family visits, so this time I have done wordlists in French, Greek and Dutch in the evening (using the tiny black Van Goos which I left there in April), and as goodnight reading I read a text collection in and about Afrikaans and another with texts in Low German and Frisian - all without translations and without a dictionary within reach. But even the Frisian text about Sumatra seemed rather comprehensible - you just have to make some sensible extrapolations from known languages.

Let's take an example: "De regio tankt har fruchtbere boaiem en prachtige natuer oan de fulkanyske aktiviteit, bygelijks om de Tobamor." Google translate converts this into Dutch "De regioon dankt zijn vruchtbare bodem en prachtige natuur aan de vulkanische activiteit, bijvoorbeeld rond de Tobamor." (I have combined two versions here), and as you can see the two languages are very close so I got to the same result without Google in my bed. The Low German text told about the Rhine (or Rhien in Platt), and it was even easier.However real studying would not be easy - I get distracted when there are people in the same room as me when I study, and wordlists are then the easiest thing to do because I just need one bilingual dictionary, some paper and two ballpoint pens in different colours.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Sun May 15, 2022 5:49 pm

An hour ago I finished the second of two MSword files describing the Dinosaurs and their closest relatives. My main task now is to go through the birds in the same way. Some of them lived before the KT 'accident' where a meteor fell down on the Easth and obliterated most of the living species on the planet, including all Pterodactyls, Mosasaurs and Dinosaurs apart from a few genera, which in time grew to today's at least 8000, but more likely 10.000+ bird species - which I now have to look through to choose those that will figure on my reference lists. Some mammmals and crocodiles and reptiles also survived the cataclysm, and you can wonder how they did it - I have noticed that many of the survivors had the habit of burrowing down below Earth's surface and wait it out. But the birds?

I'll be reading some texts the next couple of days, but real hardcore study activity has to wait.

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PS: sometimes I do consult Wikipedias or other sources in foreign languages, and I just had an example: an extinct tinamou named "Querandiornis romani", which is mentioned on the English list of dead birdies (and on its Russian counterpart, which at least spells the scientific names in Latin) - but the article it refers to is rather uninformative:

Querandiornis romani was a species of Tinamid bird that lived during the Pleistocene.[1]

- but then I found out that -

UK: Українська стаття набагато краща (і легко зрозуміти) :

"Querandiornis romani — вимерлий вид птахів родини Тинамові (Tinamidae). Вид існував у пліоцені[1] (6 млн років тому) в Південній Америці.[2] Скам'янілі рештки виду знайдені в Аргентині."
(My translation: Q.r. - extinct species of bird of family tinamous (Tinamidae). Species existed in Pliocene (6 million years ago) in South America. Petrified rests of species were-found in Argentina)
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Wed May 18, 2022 10:11 pm

I'm in the middle of the birds - I just finished the bustards or korhaans, and tomorrow I'll carry on with the cuckoos. The order is taken from the cladogram at the English Wikipedia. Speakign of korhaans: it's aleady interesting that a word from Afrikaans has become a valid alernative in English, and it reminds me of an episode from my latest safari (way back in 2013). I was in a group where half the participants were German, so there was an extra guide to keep them happy. And the rest of the time we spoke English so I didn't get a chance to use my fledgling Afrikaans - except by reading. As a supplement to my usual Anglophone field guides I first bought a books called "watter voël is dat" (what bird is that?") plus a dictionary from Pharos, but soon discovered that the bird guide didn't have Latin names nor (as far as I remember) the corresponding English names. But then i luckily found a much better guide named "Roberts Voëlgids", and it had all the requisite information so I threw the first one away - maybee an error, but it irritated me. I also tried to find magazines and other books in Afrikaans, but it was harder than it sounds - I bought some openair-and-looking-at-animals magazines since there weren't many other genres to choose from, and the choice with books was even more limited [SCOTS](apart frae some releegious beuks whit I woudnae hae bocht even if they whae the anely ones in the warld ...nie).

AF: Die reis was terloops op 'n ander manier interessant: 'n mens kon verblyf op twee vlakke kies, en aangesien die prysverskil matig was, het ek die hoë vlak gekies. Toe ons daar aankom, het dit geblyk dat diegene wat basiese verblyf gekies het, in klein tentjies moes slaap, wat hulle selfs self moet opslaan - terwyl die van ons wat goeie burgerlike vlak gekies het, mooi hotelkamers of hutte gekry het, soms met verskeie slaapkamers en kombuiskombuise - pure luukse! Ek het gehoor dat enige van die arme mense in die tente het probeer om hul verblyf op te gradeer, maar daar was selde enige vakante plekke. Soms moet jy nie oormatige spaar nie ...

EN: During my last family visit I also did my stint with Afrikaans by reading some old texts in Afrikaans about the geological epochs in the history of the world and the structure of the Karoo in particular, and even though there wasn't a translation attached it was quite easy to understand them. But I'm not terribly surprised that I can read something - after all, that's my strongest skill. It's more surprising that I could listen to some Dutch Wikipedia videos at home at my computer the night before the visit started. After all I haven't got any TV stations in Dutch, and I have listened to classical music instead of Dutch videos or podcasts. But it went rather smoothly.

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Iversen
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Sat May 21, 2022 9:42 pm

I am still buried in my species overview project, and I'm still in awe over the people who collect and publish all the information I can get for free on the internet. I ws also deeply interested in zoological nomenclature as a teenager - actually to the extent that I made handwritten lists of amphibians, reptiles, birds and mammals - not fish (far too many with more than 20.000 species already back then) and definitely not insects or plants or bacteria or god knows what. When I finished the collecting I had registrations for maybe a third of all the species in the groups I mentioned, but not with a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the information that know is available about each species. It was simply not possible to gather all that information from books at the library.

In my youth elephants were part of the same package as donkeys, and animals without teeth were collected in an order named "edentata". But first formal ladogrammes were introduced (the 'Stammbaums' you have seen earlier in this thread): here you choose some pertinent characteristics and calculate the distance between different species or groupings by using sheer mathematics. And shortly after genetical analyses were refined to the point were you had to accept that the traditional tables sometimes were wrong. And now I learn the new setup by working my way through it. One thing I have learned from the project is to be flexible and disregard my old trusted savvy.

There is of course also a linguistical side to this: I learn a lot of English (and Latin) animal names! In my youth I used the Danish and Latin names, but already during my travels I had to switch to English and use Anglophone field guides, though sometimes supplemented with books in the local languages (like Afrikaans for South Africa and Spanish in Latin America), and the result is that I now know more names in English than in Danish. Actually far more than needed: like for instance all the "common names" some species have accumulated in different regions, or the conflicting names given by scholars. But there are also names in all my other languages, and it is totally impossible to learn them all.

So when I visit zoos and aquaria I do check out the scientific Latin names of the critters. Which reminds me of another project from my youth: I painted all the birds in Denmark, but used the Latin names on the paintings, and then I irritated my surrounding by referring the birds by their Latin names - like "Anas platyrhynchos" for the mallard ('gråand' in Danish). When I had run out of Danish birds I firwst painted a crocodile, and then I started to paint surrealistic artworks.

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As for my goodnight reading, ...

IC: Ég hef áður notað tölublað af "Lifandi Visinde" en ekki klárað það. Nú fann ég hana aftur og las meðal annars mjög áhugaverða grein um súrefnisinnihald lofthjúpsins. Í fyrsta skiptið fyrir 4½ milljarði ára var jörðin of heit fyrir líf og það var nánast ekkert laust súrefni, en þá komu fram harðgerðar bakteríur sem gátu lifað af td. koltvísýringi og brennisteini - sumar þeirra reyndar enn eru til, til dæmis í sjóðandi hverum eða inni í steinum - við köllum þá "jaðarlífvera" (extremophiles). En fyrir 2,4 milljörðum ára fundu sumir blágrænir þörungar upp ljóstillífun og losuðu súrefni. En stigið hélst lágt í tvo milljarða ára - EKKERTgerðist allan þann tíma! Það var svo mikið járn í sjónum að það gat auðveldlega fjarlægt megnið af súrefninu - og því eru kílómetrar af þykkum ryðlögum í kringum umrking á jörðinni.

En einn daginn var mest allt járnið uppurið og við the vegur fraus allur hnötturinn um stund og breyttist í "snjóboltamold". Þegar jörðin þiðnaði aftur þökk sé gróðurhúsalofttegundum frá eldfjöllunum varð til kynslóð dýra sem við köllum Ediacara og þá varð gífurleg aukning á súrefnismagni – og svo kom hin svokallaða Kambríu-sprenging sem útrýmdi ediacara og flestum öfgabakteríurnar, en opnaði leiðina fyrir tilkomu dýrahópanna sem enn eru á lífi (eða að minnsta kosti afkvæmi þeirra).

Stundum hefur verið mikið súrefni í andrúmsloftinu og í sjónum - á kolefnistímabilinu var það allt að 35% (á móti 22% núna), og því gátu skordýr orðið gífurleg og öll jörðin var full af lífi. Á öðrum tímum hefur magnið lækkað, til dæmis niður til 12% við útrýmingu í lok Perms – en aldrei svo langt niður að við þurftum að byrja upp á nýtt.

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby tractor » Sat May 21, 2022 9:56 pm

Hei

Du har fleire gonger skrive at du saknar ei ordbok frå "eit eller anna" til nynorsk. Kanskje denne er det du leiter etter:
https://www.cappelendammundervisning.no ... bok-124442
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Tue May 24, 2022 5:28 pm

DA: Cappelen Damm's bokmål -> nynorske ordbog ordbog ser med sine 39.000 ord ud til at have en meget passende størrelse, og eftersom jeg har ordbøger der kan udfylde mine lakuner i bokmål, ville den sikkert kunne dække mine behov. Jeg vil prøve at skaffe den. Tak for tippet.

EN: I have also written that I rarely see connections between events in my waking life and those of my dreams I remember (the socalled "dagsrest" in Danish), but a couple of days ago I did experience a rare exception: I had used the March 2022 issue of the magazine "Esperanto" as my goodnight reading, and the most interesting part of it was five pages about radio in Esperanto. Actually I didn't recognize any of the three channels mentioned - the only radio station I have listened to was named "radio verda", but according to Vikipedio it stopped producing new programs in 2013 and I haven't used its archived transmissions much. Nevertheless it's fine that people pass on the burning torch, and if I expected to need speaking or listening to Esperanto anytime soon I might use a radio channel -y' never know.

And then in the night after I dreamt that ...

EO: Mi staris ĉe iu intersekciĝo apud tre granda parko, kaj mi sciis ke mi devus iri kontraŭan direkton por eniri la urbocentron. Mi legis la stratnomon "Mariahilfer Strasse" kaj tiel sciis, ke mi estis en Vieno. Ĉi tie mi devis trovi lokon kun preĝejo, kiun mi (laŭ la sonĝo) serĉis en la interreto la antaŭan tagon - mi ne memoras la nomon de la loko kaj do ne scias ĉu ĝi ankaŭ vere ekzistas. Mi trovis la lokon, kaj jen vico da domoj kun kelkaj malfermitaj pordoj (kaj pli malgranda spaco dekliva dekstren, kiuj kongruas kun miaj geografiaj atendoj). Mi promenis en la unua kaj trovis giĉeton kun vitro, kie ial mi devis enmanigi ian pasporton aŭ identigilon. Kaj poste mi devis denove eliri kaj eniri la apudan pordon, kie estis ankaŭ vendotablo - kaj jen venis al mi en la kapon, ke verŝajne temas pri ia poliglota kunveno aŭ 'gathering', do mi salutis salutis la viron malantaŭ la vendotablo kun "bonan tagon", kaj tiam estis pli malgranda konversacio en Esperanto kies enhavon mi forgesis - estis io pri la eblaj agadoj, ĉar ne ŝajnis, ke io ajn afero okazis en la koridoro. Mi iris plu al enprofundiĝinta areo ĉirkaŭita de sofoj, ĉi tie mi sidis dum iom tempo, poste revenis al la vendotablo, kiu nuntempe estis forlasita kaj malplena, kaj tiam mi eliris el la konstruaĵo kaj supreniris al la pli malgranda spaco, sed vekiĝis antaŭ ol mi atingis ĝin.

F5922b03 Hitzing, Wien.jpg
F5922b03 Hitzing, Wien.jpg (22.9 KiB) Viewed 328 times

GER: Als ich das letzte Mal auf die Mariahilfer Straße gestoßen bin, habe ich nach einer großen Buchhandlung gesucht, in der es etliche Wörterbücher und ähnliches geben sollte – und bin tatsächlich fündig geworden und habe meine Sammlung vergrößert. Nach Westen führt sie tatsächlich zu einem Park, dem Auer-Welsbach-Park, aber im Traum dachte ich wohl eher an den Schönbrunner Park (ich habe zweimal in einem Hotel am Eingang des Parks übernachtet und dort die U-Bahn-Station Hitzing benutzt).

EN: PS: I have now reached the passeriformes birdies, and there is thousands of them - enough to keep me occupied for a couple of days ...
5 x


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