Don't Think [JNP]

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OatsBreaker
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Don't Think [JNP]

Postby OatsBreaker » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:54 pm

Learning Japanese for glory and games but mostly games.

The Kodansha Kanji Learner's Course(KLC)

001-02004.22.20 |
021-04004.23.20
041-06004.27.20
061-08009.16.20
081-10010.29.20
101-12010.30.20
121-14011.02.20
141-16011.03.20
161-18011.04.20
181-20011.05.20
201-22011.07.20
221-24011.08.20
241-26011.09.20
261-28011.10.20
281-30011.12.20
301-32011.18.20
321-34011.19.20
341-36011.20.20
361-38011.21.20
381-40011.23.20
401-42011.25.20
421-44011.25.20
441-46012.21.20
461-48012.29.20
481-50012.30.20
_________


Michel Thomas Japanese Foundation (MTJF) |
CD105.03.20
CD208.04.20
CD311.06.20
CD411.15.20
CD509.03.21
CD609.09.21
CD709.15.21
CD809.21.21
Michel Thomas Japanese Advanced(MTJA)
CD110.03.21
CD210.15.21
Last edited by OatsBreaker on Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:29 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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crush
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Re: Don't Think [JNP]

Postby crush » Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:51 pm

Welcome to the forums! I'm also learning Japanese with games in mind, mostly to play classic Japanese RPGs (SNES/PSX).

I hadn't heard of KLC before, how are you finding it? What are those numbers, the number of kanji you've covered?
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Re: Don't Think [JNP]

Postby OatsBreaker » Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:42 am

Where the heck have you been?
As you can see I fell off track sometime last year and started up just recently. This time I'm going for consistency instead of progress so I won't have 500 Anki cards due for review like I do now. ( starting over :( )

Are you still learning Japanese?

I recently found out the game I want to play is coming out in 2023(if) so I will be trying to make it to intermediate level by then so I can at least struggle through the game.

So far, how do you feel about the materials you're using to Learn Japanese?

Kodansha Kanji Learner's Course ... It's not fun coming back to things I started before...KLC is alright. I just want to learn how to write Kanji and learning the meaning of the Kanji is just a byproduct. I read online that I should learn the Kanji reading while learning the meaning but I don't want to. The book does provide the readings so I'll probably go over the book again if it's REALLY necessary.

Michel Thomas Japanese.. ah.. I feel like I'm learning Japanese? :lol: Its teaching a bunch of grammar stuff which I assume is basic. I can't say how good the content is or anything because I haven't even picked up a Japanese language book yet. Although, I can say the female student talks in a breathless way which can be annoying sometimes.

The advanced course is kicking my butt because I mostly do small sections of the tracks days apart. It feels like they are introducing ten new concepts consecutively, then asking me to do one or two sentences on two of them, then moving on to something else completely one minute later, then two days down the road asking me to remember five of the ten new concepts.

But I 'm having fun.

Oh , I've been doing Hiragana and Katakana on the side. I've learned Hiragana (don't remember when) and am currently learning the H row of Katakana. I don't know why but I had an easier time remembering Hiragana than Katakana.

Of course, I'm learning how to write them too because I like writing.

...? I'm using Genki's self-study room to learn Hiragana and Katakana. I do a row a day whenever I remember and review with a user-made Memrise deck.

Genki: An Integrated Course in Elementary Japanese is the next book I going to be using, I peeked. :)


Is that all , really?

I watch Japanese news on YouTube, watch Japanese native Let's Plays on YouTube, set my games audio to Japanese and listen to Japanese music on my commute. Basically, anything that can be consumed in Japanese will be consumed except filling out forms and browsing the internet because I actually don't know Japanese. ( that one time I set my web browser language Japanese ☠ )

I'm getting that game and eating it too.

One last thing before I disappear for another half year, I will be doing Pimsleur Japanese after MTJA. I thought I could finish KLC in time but that didn't happen so I'm continuing audio lessons to avoid more book work. My library has some lessons available and I'll use the app subscription to cover what they don't have. For my wallet sake, I hope I don't procrastinate.
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Re: Don't Think [JNP]

Postby golyplot » Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:35 pm

I'm curious why you want to learn to write Kanji. That seems like a pretty useless skill, and isn't necessary at all for your goals of reading and understanding Japanese.

Anyway, I would recommend Wanikani for kanji learning, but it does teach you readings too (I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to learn readings anyway).
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Re: Don't Think [JNP]

Postby AllSubNoDub » Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:04 pm

I'm actually doing something extremely similar, but with RTK. I also very much enjoy writing kanji, and judging by extensive anecdotal evidence, being able to write the characters leads to much less character confusion between similar kanji later on.

I subscribe to the sentiments in this video.


Thousands of people have learned this way, so it seems valid to me. If I were using KKLC I would go about it the same way (I might go through KKLC after RTK).

Caveats:
  • Matt has changed his mind on this, and now thinks recognition in the beginning is more efficient. That said, he had nothing to sell at the time of the video, and now he does (his own recognition decks), so take that as you will.
  • I do agree that recognition in the beginning is more efficient in getting you to be able to read fast, but if you were to do 20 characters a day, that means you'd finish in under 3.5 months (a blink of the eye in terms of timeline). And, as I said, even though it's more efficient, I think it's not as effective. It really depends on your goals.
  • This isn't advice, just sharing my opinion.

Edit: grammar
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Re: Don't Think [JNP]

Postby golyplot » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:09 am

20 characters a day seems ridiculously optimistic. I did a fraction of that (avg 5.7) on Wanikani and still forgot most of it.
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Re: Don't Think [JNP]

Postby AllSubNoDub » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:57 am

golyplot wrote:20 characters a day seems ridiculously optimistic.

I think it's challenging, but I don't see why it's ridiculous. I learn 10 characters a day and I only spend an average of 40 minutes a day on characters and I also have over a 92% retention rate (the typical/suggested rate is 80-90% during the learning phase). I'd probably be doing 25-30 a day like a lot of AJATTers if I didn't have work, grad school, and Spanish (I spend almost 3 hours a day on Spanish). I think the video I posted sums up my feelings on Wanikani (but I admit, what I'm doing is an experiment, so I very well may fail too, even with the help of Anki; I just highly doubt it).
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Re: Don't Think [JNP]

Postby golyplot » Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:02 am

It's certainly possible to brute force your way through, like I did when speedrunning Wanikani. But the real test is if you can actually remember them months later once you stop actively reviewing them. I forgot most of what I learned on Wanikani within months and am still trying to work my way through the reviews again.


As for the video, some parts I agree with, some parts I disagree with, and some are just downright silly (like trying to sell the lack of mnemonics as a feature.)
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Re: Don't Think [JNP]

Postby AllSubNoDub » Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:00 pm

golyplot wrote:It's certainly possible to brute force your way through, like I did when speedrunning Wanikani. But the real test is if you can actually remember them months later once you stop actively reviewing them. I forgot most of what I learned on Wanikani within months and am still trying to work my way through the reviews again.


As for the video, some parts I agree with, some parts I disagree with, and some are just downright silly (like trying to sell the lack of mnemonics as a feature.)


I don't see 20/day as speedrunning, as long as you're not doing too much other Japanese in the background. Speedrunning implies it's hard. The most I've learned in one day was 30 and I admit I felt kind of drained and my retention rate % dropped to the 80's, so I would say that's my own personal limit. A lot of AJATTers do 50/day and Yoga from Migaku did 100/day I think lol, that's speedrunning, and you will have retention problems at that rate.

I never plan to stop reviewing my RTK characters, so I don't see it as a problem (though I might switch them to Japanese keywords later on). Since Anki is free, I don't have to worry about paying for it.
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