italki: How was your experience?

[Cavesa]

Various.

I am a rather independent learner, so my only reason to find a teacher at times is to cover things I may struggle with on my own and that the courses (books and audio) and native input cannot help me with. When I am looking for a teacher, I want them to fit into my learning, and italki seems perfect at first sight. But unfortunately, it is not that different from real life and I still have (or am) a problem, as I do not fit into the main system many teachers prefer (which is taking over and ignoring my experience and individual efforts). I've had this problem even in real life in 1 on 1 setting. Convincing a teacher that you actually know damn well what you are missing and doing it in not unpleasant manner is a challenge.

I usually look for someone, when I am at a higher level, I don't think a teacher is particularly better than a normal book with audio for a beginner, that is already making me a minority learner. Italki doesn't even have "advanced" option in the filter, and vast majority of the tutors doesn't mention such experience in their profiles at all. And I want the teacher to be strict and correct everything (whether in real time or after, that is another discussion), I don't need a lenient "encourager" instead. That is another problem.

The reviews from other learners are completely useless, in my opinion. Most simply seem to be looking for something else than me, or they perhaps don't know what to write in such a review. "She is a nice person and I learnt a lot today" doesn't tell me anything at all.

My main complaint and advice: make a good profile. With real information. I don't care about vague "I am experienced" or "I teach all levels" or "We can either just talk or I can prepare you to exams". I would love to know approximately how many students you have had at my level. You've prepared them for any exams? Which ones? What levels? What were the results of your students. Your education interests me and not only the language degree or certificate. I would like to know whether you have humanities or science or other background (that could be extremely useful for specific language within the field, or for various specific needs. Has nobody noticed the host of erasmus and other exchange students in need of language skills focused on chemistry/geology/sociology/etc?), and if you mention a language certificate or a degree, I would like to know what certificate or degree it is.

I've tried three teachers on Italki and I failed to find the fourth one. My impressions:

1.French, advanced level, I wanted detailed feedback. This one would have been a good choice for regular speaking. She was extremely good at pointing out even small mistakes and that was awesome. She didn't have the attitude "but you speak extremely well for a non native,what do you want to correct". But if I remember correctly, she didn't want to help me focus primarily on writing, that was the catch, and also the time zones were a bit difficult to adapt to (she was living in eastern asia at the moment, if I remember correctly). But she was one of the best teachers I have ever met.

2.Italian, I wanted some assessment (I was considering signing up for something that would have required me to improve a lot in just a few months), and general feedback (my level was very basic speaking with mistakes and very good comprehension). Good quality feedback at the moment, but too much of surprise concerning my self-studying success (and too much time spent on it). Basically, she hadn't ever met anyone who had learnt more than to order a coffee on their own. And that was a problem, as she was already suggesting a normal slow path with "the whole package" teaching from her (and she was setting me up for failure, as most teachers have simply no clue about the pace of a motivated learner). I had been considering paying someone to complement my courses, not to do the same stuff and to hold my hand as if I was a first time learner. As far as the assessment and feedback for my Italian at that given moment, she did a good job though.

3.Spanish, speaking practice. My speaking skills are around B2. For removal of rust on my spoken Spanish, assessment, and the pleasure of speaking the language, it worked fine and it was a good experience. But I am a bit suspicious of people complimenting me too much. I think this teacher could have been a good investment for long term speaking improvement, if I could afford that expense right now. But I was not sure he would be just as good for writing or willing to help me focus on it.

4.A failure to get a single answer from four teachers. I had selected a few who seemed to have experience with advanced learners. C2 French with focus on writing. I really need to improve that and a teacher giving me high quality feedback and guidance could help a lot, as the resources for individual learning leave a lot to be desired in this area. I wrote four messages asking whether the teachers would take a student like me. They didn't bother with even a one word answer "non". Perhaps rdearman is right and they don't even read any messages.

[reineke]

Write something and after x number of corrections contact the most helpful and informative members (if they're offering lessons/wish to be contacted). In that manner you are also rewarding and incentivizing the right people.

I don't care too much about the profile section.

Find tutors/conversation partners:
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 908#p37908

[Cavesa]

Write something and after x number of corrections contact the most helpful and informative members (if they're offering lessons/wish to be contacted). In that manner you are also rewarding and incentivizing the right people.

I don't care too much about the profile section.

Whenever I posted something in the notebook part, I never got more than one or two responses, so it would take a lot of posts, that is the first thing. Sure, I could just use the notebook (as that is what you mean, if I understand correctly), but I would need to be several levels lower for it to matter. I highly doubt there will be many people explaining me what is formally wrong about my compte rendu there, or how to write a story with better and more natural style. And there is also a limit on how long texts you can post there. Based on stuff I could post there and the type of corrections one receives there, I could hardly choose members of the community to contact. Also, only short texts fit. It is logical that there is a limit. Why would people capable of high quality feedback to a page or longer texts do it for free there, when they can do so as part of paid tutoring? They won't be wasting time in the notebook section, so I don't know how it could help me find them.

And also, I am willing to pay for this. That changes the situation. I have given up on exchanges and such stuff ages ago. So, if I am a paying customer, I don't think being treated like one (the teacher presenting themselves with relevant information in their profile, answering to messages, helping me achieve my goals and not changing the goals to better suit their working style) is too much to ask.

[MacGyver]

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[eido]

If he is Korean and English isn't his native language, it's quite possible that he didn't realize it might sound rude to you. Navigating what comes off as rude across cultural and linguistic differences can be tricky. I once innocently told my (now) husband that he was stupid and I was surprised that he seemed offended. He had light-heartedly called me silly and I hadn't quite grasped the differences between "you're silly" and "you're stupid".

I thought about that. It still irked me, though. And it didn't help when I asked my parents why he might have said it (when I hadn't thought of the cultural differences piece), they came up with racist stuff. Urk.

[rdearman]

If he is Korean and English isn't his native language, it's quite possible that he didn't realize it might sound rude to you. Navigating what comes off as rude across cultural and linguistic differences can be tricky. I once innocently told my (now) husband that he was stupid and I was surprised that he seemed offended. He had light-heartedly called me silly and I hadn't quite grasped the differences between "you're silly" and "you're stupid".

I thought about that. It still irked me, though. And it didn't help when I asked my parents why he might have said it (when I hadn't thought of the cultural differences piece), they came up with racist stuff. Urk.

Never blame malice for what can be adequately explained by ignorance.

[Kraut]

My main complaint and advice: make a good profile. With real information.

https://de.verbling.com/lehrer/shey

[reineke]

Kraut's experience was very satisfactory.

[Iceberg]

Good and bad.

I’m not usually someone who is into lessons, but rather study independently or some type of language exchange with serious, motivated and independent language enthusiasts. That said, I have taken online lessons for improving my speaking skills and getting feedback on my preparation for some specific language proficiency tests. I mainly request an assessment on speaking, though sometimes I might include writing skills as well.

positive experiences

I have had great experiences with both Lithuanian and Latvian language tutors. Both of them were inexperienced tutors, but I have no choices, as there were no other alternatives at that time.

They were studying Humanities in their respective countries, focusing on linguistics, their native tongues (from the native speaker’s perspective) as well as English and Russian as a second language. Therefore, despite being a community tutor there, they had a good background on Linguistics, especially on both L1 and L2 acquisition theories and practice by teaching their native tongues to native Lithuanians and Latvian people; as well as having another part time job as a second language educator in a classroom setting. That said, I was each tutor’s first student on Italki. So, I didn’t know what to expect, but giving the fees being relatively low at that time, I gave it a try. I sent them messages with a very specific and clear request: a lesson focused on speaking skills.

As an experienced language learner, I know what I want, what are my needs, what are my weaknesses. I have managed to go through the main resources available online, legally and for free, but also some other materials I found out where I live. From my experience in other major languages, I thought I was around passive B2 (reading and listening), at least, but have no idea about my speaking skills. Probably B1, but perhaps it could B2-ish. I wanted to push myself to be around B2, anyway, so they have assessed my skills. They knew about CEFR and they have used some mock exams to prepare foreign students in both Lithuanian and Latvian universities.

I know CEFR has its flaws, but for most tasks, say, 90%, I got a solid B2, the remaining 10% being around B1-B2 and sometimes B1 level. So, the first lessons I took were more based on speaking tasks or tests. Later on, since I was about to travel to both Lithuania and Latvia, we talked freely about local cuisine (which I was very unfamiliar with), what were considered good manners and non-spoken rules, some specific cultural aspects and some sightseeing and places that I was about to visit.

I have always made very clear since the first message that I wanted to receive a very honest feedback on my speaking skills, but with them taking notes and not interrupting me every single word. They used to type on Google docs what were errors and suggestions to say things more clearly, suggestions on textbook-like sentences into more native-like sentences and so on.

It is very annoying for me, at least, being corrected by a grammar-nazi all the time. Corrections are always welcome and a must when I am paying for the lesson itself, but there are some ways to give some better feedback, I suppose. If you keep interrupting every single word, I will lose concentration on what I was speaking at some point. Overall, I have got very positive benefits from taking lessons with them. Unfortunately, they have disappeared and I never got to speak either languages, let alone, maintained both languages.

My Burmese tutor have been very patient as well. She has provided everything the Latvian and Lithuanian tutors have offered me. The only minor problem was the internet connection. All in all, the I gained a lot because it wasn't expensive fee and, despite having no background in teaching, humanities or whatsoever, she had talent. She knew about CEFR and I could confirm I was, at least, B2 level. She also provided Burmese speaking tasks at B1, B2 and C1 level to assess me, adapted to CEFR from her university. Unfortunately she disappeared and I also have not maintained this language anymore after having reached my goal.

I have always given 5 stars to them because all of them have read my messages. My request was always clear and simple: a lesson focused on speaking skills. They have provided me good feedback, especially through Google docs, not being a grammar-nazi during my turn to speak. A video-lesson was offered, as stated in their profile. I received feedback on how to improve, often getting suggestion on how I could say the same thing (despite not being considered grammatically a mistake); they have been punctual as well.

Mixed feelings

I have had two very great Korean tutors like the ones above. Their prices were affordable for my budget and they have simply offered lessons based on my request. I wanted to assess my Korean speaking skills.

We could talk about many things and they were correcting me also using Google docs under my request or suggestion. It could be any other way, as long as, I would not be corrected every single word I was uttering.

The former was traveling as a backpacker and had very good commands in other languages. The latter was also a language enthusiast. She had lived in Kazakhstan, so, I often used to ask about her experiences about learning Russian from the scratch there, as well as Kazakh culture.

I could learn a lot about the cultural differences between South and North Korea as well as differences in the vocabulary, accent and so on. We could talk about many other aspects of my interest, such as Korean cuisine; and furthermore, they have provided me information on most common mistakes by Japanese people. Apparently I haven't not been making the same mistakes, but it was very interesting topic.

They were great tutors at a price that was affordable. The former have spent some time in Kazakhstan. Since then, I have been into Kazakhstan, though I have postponed my travel destination due to professional reasons. We used to talk about traveling, languages, some aspects of Korean culture, differences in between South Korea and North Korea cultures, accents etc. And again, I was often going back to her experience in Kazakhstan and how she learned Russian there. The latter was traveling as a backpacker around the world, so, despite her minor internet connection problems, she has always read my messages and she clearly gave me feedbacks through Google documents. Then, she told me to read them carefully and ask her for anything I didn’t understand during the next lesson. I have improved my speaking skills because they knew what the challenges are for foreigners in general, especially for Japanese students. We used to compare the syntax with both Korean and Japanese and some minor differences for A1 up to B2 level students.

They said they were very motivated for having someone geek and equally motivated like me. They apologized for having to stop, which I could understand. I told them, they have both motivated me learning Russian and also keeping Korean, which I failed to maintain. This year I decided to restart from the scratch, though.

With other Korean tutors, they haven't read my requests. They have agreed upon the lesson being focused on speaking, but in the end, I got a pdf to learn some random vocabulary on topics out of my interests. I haven't asked for a discussion on dentistry as I'm not a dentist myself and I have no interest in such topic. Not, at least, for the first topic with a random Korean tutor.

I wasn't asked about Korean pop music, but still, I got another pdf on Korean pop artists. I know they were probably famous, but I had no idea who they were, let alone, listened to any single song from that group. I had no interest in discussing about Kim's politics and its relation to Trump for my first lesson with another tutor. I can't recall asking for how oncologists are trying to find out a cure for Korean patients in the past years. And no, I have no interest in the former Park president issues. I have nothing to do with politics, and there are many other interesting topics to discuss about. And the main problem is that they gave me texts to read during the lesson. If I were to receive a pdf file named "John, American student - Italki", "Suzy - South African student - Italki - October", "Bill - Australian student - May" and whoever, I would have preferred to have them sent before the lesson. And before, I mean, some days before to read carefully and check the words I eventually don't know. But, I would start with something of MY own interest. I don't need anything on medicine or biology related field as this have not been my priority when learning Korean.

Bad experiences

When it comes to Chinese tutors, I have never had good experiences. I have tried lessons with so many tutors, but it seems that they never read my requests. I know what I want. If they have agreed, then, they should provide me speaking lessons, instead of using other students’ materials for myself. Why do I need someone to "teach" me how to "write" or read a specific hanzi? I have never request anyone to teach me how to write a hanzi. Pleco, for instance, can teach me. There are some online websites that can also teach me. But, as someone who have learned Japanese, I'm not interested on the differences between the stroke orders between Japanese and Chinese (and eventually Korean Hanja) characters. I actually do that by myself and I don't need anyone for such a simple task. I do have internet access at home. Google can provide me many links on such topic.

Who do they think I am? I don’t need a pdf to teach me ideograms, with all the respect. I have never requested such thing. I also have never requested any pdf lessons where they taught me some solely vocabulary. What's the purpose of translating a list of vocabulary? Where is the context? No, please, don't make me pissed off.

90% of the tutors have clearly sent me materials like the Korean tutors I described above. When I checked my inbox and I saw "Harry - October - underwear fashion", "Chinese bra - May", "A man sells his kidney to buy Iphone in China - November" etc. Can't anyone provide me a pdf on 100 topics of my interest? I have sent them many options. If I need to buy a bra or an underwear, I know which color and size to. I don't have any interest in Chinese fashion. I don't care how much the kidney cost for the mafia this man sold. It is none of my business, anyway.

Differently from most students, I provided an honest feedback, which has never been shown on Italki websites. I have given 1 to 5 stars, but never above 3 to Chinese tutors because I never got what was agreed before the lesson. If I want some speaking sessions, it is because I have reached somewhere above B1, B1-B2 or B2-ish level, at least. That's my motto. I start taking lessons, when I either reach a solid B1 or if I need to prepare for a proficiency test.

I even got a pdf on entry exam for Chinese universities. I’m not willing to study in a Chinese university. When I thought I found some promising tutors, they have rescheduled for over 7 times. I'm patient (though I don't seem to ). The first time is okay. The second, third and fourth, or even fifth, it is still acceptable. But, 7 times in a row? No, you are testing my patience here. And what made me pissed off is when I asked them to give me back 100% of the lesson fee. They have NOT showed up for 3 times, and even having rescheduled a last minute, they haven't apologized me at all, not to say that demanded me to pay them 100% of the lesson fee. I couldn't accept this situation. Italki, in the end, gave me the 100% after I complained. However, they have NOT shown on the website my 1 star and my honest feedback on each tutor. I don't want to bash any tutor, but I provide an honest feedback, so that he or she can learn from their mistakes. Everyone can change and that was for them to change. They need to be more professionals and be punctual, reduce the amount of rescheduling etc. I do understand that they might have been pregnant, someone have passed away, they fought with their partners etc. But I'm also a human with responsibilities, regardless of my personal problems.

I actually stopped learning Chinese as I have already visited some places I wanted in both China and Taiwan. Recently, because I found out some good language exchange partners, I decided to restart from the scratch once again.

And, no, I dislike New Practical Chinese Reader, Boya Chinese, Chinese Integrated and any other textbooks I have seen so far. Don’t come with such textbooks into my speaking lessons because I know every single dialogue and even point out from which textbook it was taken.

I forgot to mention that, while I do understand many people feel uncomfortable about video-lessons, I can’t agree that they are not using webcam. It was NOT stated that they were audio-lessons only. I tend to understand the northern Chinese accents as I have been in contact with Chinese from those regions in Japan. The Southern Chinese accents (which most tutors come from) were really hard for me to keep the conversation, especially with audio-only lessons. If they put "video-lessons", please, don't lie and provide a video-lesson. Be honest, after all.


I also have had lessons with dishonest German tutors. They were NOT native speakers. While I acknowledge that many non-native speakers can teach a foreign language very well, I paid for a native speakers. They were not only native speakers, but also didn't read my request.

All in all, I don't have another lesson with someone who don't read my request. Lying is also something I don't like. But I also stopped having German lessons because I won't go to Germany again at short term goal and I don't have any German friends to practice with.

Maybe I am the only one who have noticed, but Italki fees have increased a lot. I used to pay 5 usd/hour before for some languages. Nowadays, the cheapest lessons are the fees I used to pay, but that is back to, urrh, many years ago when Italki started.

I personally ignore ratings. Recently psychological studies so that public ratings systems will always become unreliable and inflated.

The best tutors I have had, had lower ratings. The ones with 5 ratings were the worst ones. So, I also don't follow any ratings.

[reineke]

..
...with Korean, the syllables are hard for me to hear yet, and I can't pronounce the sounds with a reasonable degree of accuracy...

He was pretty patient and much more prepared than the other girl, but one comment gave me pause. I kept messing up on a sentence pattern because I had another similar-sounding pattern ingrained in my brain, and he said, "Well, I know you want to do that, but what about the sentence we're talking about here?" At the time I laughed because it was silly to me that I'd had that pattern so deeply stuck in there, but I thought about it later and thought it was kind of rude.

I'm always afraid to have Skype calls because I don't make eye contact usually with people and I mess up a lot, especially with regard to Korean which I've never formally studied. These people have the power to make or break how much I like studying it, but not how much I like the language itself.

I can't say it's been helpful this early in the game, but I'd say I prefer the professional lessons so far. Hopefully that rant above can help others when knowing what to look for in a teacher, regardless of the language.

If he is Korean and English isn't his native language, it's quite possible that he didn't realize it might sound rude to you. Navigating what comes off as rude across cultural and linguistic differences can be tricky. I once innocently told my (now) husband that he was stupid and I was surprised that he seemed offended. He had light-heartedly called me silly and I hadn't quite grasped the differences between "you're silly" and "you're stupid".

I thought about that. It still irked me, though. And it didn't help when I asked my parents why he might have said it (when I hadn't thought of the cultural differences piece), they came up with racist stuff. Urk.

Never blame malice for what can be adequately explained by ignorance.

The tutor's comment sounded reasonable to me.