Are "cloze" cards good for an advanced language learner?

[mystlg18]

I'd say I'm quite advanced in Spanish. I'd like to broaden my vocabulary. I enjoy using Anki. In my quest to eliminate my native language from my Anki deck, I was thinking of how I could make new cards. It doesn't completely solve the problem, but I came up with two ideas that I'd like your thoughts on.

1. Cloze cards from media that I consume in which the target word has no context. Let's say I read a book and see the word "casa," which means house. Ex: Fuimos a {{C1::la casa}} con nuestros amigos. Assuming there are sentences before or after this one that speak about being at a house, I would be able to guess the context solely using the target language.

2. Cloze cards from media that I consume in which the target word has context. For example: La casa {{c1::es muy::is very}} feo. Here, I am giving myself a hint in English because there are several options I could choose from. Once again, this is assuming that there is nothing else, as in, no sentences with clues before or after this one which would allow me to deduce "es muy" belongs in this sentence.

Is this okay to do, without using any basic and reversed cards in my deck?

I am planning to do this with individual vocabulary words and phrases that I would like to learn (assuming that they are all found within native content that I am consuming).

What are your thoughts?

[zenmonkey]

In the second case you can keep it in Spanish by using a hint in Spanish (no es poco) with antonyms or synonyms or descriptors (“cantidad”)

[mystlg18]

In the second case you can keep it in Spanish by using a hint in Spanish (no es poco) with antonyms or synonyms or descriptors (“cantidad”)

I really like that idea. Giving myself a hint in Spanish would be a very effective way of going about this. Thank you!

[NoManches]

I'm trying to remember why I never was a big fan of cloze deletions, and I think it's because I eventually learned what the answer would be just from the sentence alone. In other words, after a few repetitions with the card I'd know the answer based on the beginning of the sentence.

Here's an example:

I want to learn the Spanish word for "cliff" which is "el acantilado". I use word reference or maybe the very sentence I found the word in to get an example sentence to use for context. I then make my cloze deletion card:

El vehículo se precipitó por un {{c1:: acantilado::cliff}}

The problem I always has was that as soon as I read "El vehículo" my brain would automatically remember the answer to the card.

For this reason I've never been a fan of cloze deletions. Maybe I'm just doing it wrong?

Although it takes more time, I've always been successful with basic and reverse cards

Card 1: English on one side Spanish on the other
Card 2: Spanish on one side English on the other.

I then include an example sentence on the Spanish side for context.

[mystlg18]

I'm trying to remember why I never was a big fan of cloze deletions, and I think it's because I eventually learned what the answer would be just from the sentence alone. In other words, after a few repetitions with the card I'd know the answer based on the beginning of the sentence.

Here's an example:

I want to learn the Spanish word for "cliff" which is "el acantilado". I use word reference or maybe the very sentence I found the word in to get an example sentence to use for context. I then make my cloze deletion card:

El vehículo se precipitó por un {{c1:: acantilado::cliff}}

The problem I always has was that as soon as I read "El vehículo" my brain would automatically remember the answer to the card.

For this reason I've never been a fan of cloze deletions. Maybe I'm just doing it wrong?

Although it takes more time, I've always been successful with basic and reverse cards

Card 1: English on one side Spanish on the other
Card 2: Spanish on one side English on the other.

I then include an example sentence on the Spanish side for context.

Since I am barely beginning to try out cloze deletion type cards, I haven't personally run into that issue, but I could imagine that happening. I read a similar argument online somewhere, and the only good reply was that that may lessen once the deck grows and there is many more cards to review. However, I don't know how good that solution would be. I honestly prefer basic and reversed cards too, versus cloze cards, but my main issue is translation. I'm trying to remove it from my deck as much as possible. However, I'm starting to think that there isn't one best way to tackle this issue at this level and the majority of my time should be spent away from Anki. I've pondered on this topic for hours and I've yet to come across a decent solution to this issue.

[NoManches]

However, I'm starting to think that there isn't one best way to tackle this issue at this level and the majority of my time should be spent away from Anki. I've pondered on this topic for hours and I've yet to come across a decent solution to this issue.

I ran into a problem where I was spending far too much time messing with Anki, and not enough time with native materials. I found that I would try to use native materials, but would get caught up (for hours) adding unknown words to Anki and trying to customize those cards to my liking (I used to add audio, example sentences, and pictures) to a lot of my cards...and if I remember correctly, at one point I had way over 5,000 cards (and they were all front-> back and back->front....so in other words, 5,000 words but 10,000 cards.

At the beginning stages to low intermediate level, I think Anki can be a great tool. At the intermediate stage, you should be spending as much time as you possibly can devouring native content. I don't think it would be necessary to stop using Anki, but maybe stop adding new words to Anki. You can get a lot of QUALITY Anki reps in during a 15-30 minute time period assuming you have a ton of cards in your deck. However, the time required to make cards takes up a huge amount of time.

Now that I'm at a somewhat advanced level, I can see how Anki could be an extremely useful took (for advanced learners) if used correctly. I have a very solid core vocabulary which I encounter frequently from reading, listening, and speaking (aka using the language). I have no need to do reviews of these types of words. There are many words though, that I would like to incorporate into my vocabulary. The problem is, it would take many, many, years to realistically "encounter these words in the wild".

[Adrianslont]

I'm trying to remember why I never was a big fan of cloze deletions, and I think it's because I eventually learned what the answer would be just from the sentence alone. In other words, after a few repetitions with the card I'd know the answer based on the beginning of the sentence.

Here's an example:

I want to learn the Spanish word for "cliff" which is "el acantilado". I use word reference or maybe the very sentence I found the word in to get an example sentence to use for context. I then make my cloze deletion card:

El vehículo se precipitó por un {{c1:: acantilado::cliff}}

The problem I always has was that as soon as I read "El vehículo" my brain would automatically remember the answer to the card.

For this reason I've never been a fan of cloze deletions. Maybe I'm just doing it wrong?

Although it takes more time, I've always been successful with basic and reverse cards

Card 1: English on one side Spanish on the other
Card 2: Spanish on one side English on the other.

I then include an example sentence on the Spanish side for context.

I’m not sure why this experience with cloze cards is bad. Are you saying you would remember “acantilado” but not it’s meaning?

If so, I guess it’s not great - though at least you know such a word exists in Spanish and can exist in this sentence/context.

In my experience with cloze cards I nearly always remember the meaning of the word, though. If not, and I think the card/example is a bad one, I delete it. It probably helps that I take my sentences from things I have read or heard so I have more context than a sample sentence from a dictionary.

I think it’s possible to have good and bad cloze cards - by using text I’ve read and getting rid of dud cards, they work for me. Caveat: this is at an intermediate level.

[NoManches]

I'm trying to remember why I never was a big fan of cloze deletions, and I think it's because I eventually learned what the answer would be just from the sentence alone. In other words, after a few repetitions with the card I'd know the answer based on the beginning of the sentence.

Here's an example:

I want to learn the Spanish word for "cliff" which is "el acantilado". I use word reference or maybe the very sentence I found the word in to get an example sentence to use for context. I then make my cloze deletion card:

El vehículo se precipitó por un {{c1:: acantilado::cliff}}

The problem I always has was that as soon as I read "El vehículo" my brain would automatically remember the answer to the card.

For this reason I've never been a fan of cloze deletions. Maybe I'm just doing it wrong?

Although it takes more time, I've always been successful with basic and reverse cards

Card 1: English on one side Spanish on the other
Card 2: Spanish on one side English on the other.

I then include an example sentence on the Spanish side for context.

I’m not sure why this experience with cloze cards is bad. Are you saying you would remember “acantilado” but not it’s meaning?

If so, I guess it’s not great - though at least you

No, what I mean is that the beginning of my example sentence would automatically trigger the answer for me. I would get the answer right, but not because I used the context of the sentence to figure it out. I would start to read the sentence and before getting to the cloze deletion part I would already be thinking "oh yea...I remember this card...the answer is acantilado".

Better example:

Imagine I made the following flash card

Front: xx**&&
Back: dog

After a while, I would just learn that whenever I saw the symbols xx**&&, the answer is dog.

At least when I make a traditional front->back flashcard I am actually training myself to associate one English word with a Spanish word.

Hoping this at least makes some sense...

[Adrianslont]

Nomanches, I understand you now. Thank you. The rephrased explanation helped - and maybe I’m more awake now.

Still I think it’s beneficial if you are thinking, “Oh the answer to this card is ‘acantilado’ and that means ‘cliff’”. Though that maybe a long winded way to go about it.

[Sayonaroo]

I use cloze cards for Korean by making multiple clozes (I never cloze the whole word unless it's 1 syllable and even then I give myself a hint like the consonant sound) and making the intervals huge ( for new cards it's either 7 days for okay or 11 days for good. My one step is 2900 minutes). Korean has 14 consonants and 10 vowels and most korean words are 1-4 syllables long and each "block" is one syllable so 베일듯한 긴장감 is 7 syllables. I realized that I spend less time on anki reviews using making multiple clozes vs. just one cloze and other formats with tweaking anki settings like intervals. Also this format is more effective than the other anki card formats. I do not recommend this format for beginners since you'd be better off reading/listening to learn the common/useful words.

This specific format works well for Korean for me but I can't imagine it would be useful for Spanish etc.

here are examples: I use japanese/english/korean to learn korean

**{{c1::베}}{{c2::일}}** 듯한 긴장감
{{c2::切}}れるような緊張感

{{c1::お}}しのけること;{{c1::し}}りぞけること。
【예】외래 문화를 {{c1::배}}{{c2::척}}하다.
外来の文化を{{c1::排}}{{c2::斥}}する。

Also sometimes I make 3 clozes where I cloze 2 syllables of the word and cloze stuff in the defintion.
g{{c1::꽁}}{{c2::냥}}질
연인끼{{c3::리}} 가볍게 스킨십을 하거나 장{{c3::난}}을 치며 {{c3::정}}답게 구{{c3::는}} 행위.
skinship

I posted my cloze format for Japanese here

https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 98#p111016