We haven't got up to 'yes" yet!

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Re: We haven't got up to 'yes" yet!

Postby reineke » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:08 pm

CompImp wrote:I genuinely can't believe you lot have spent 6 pages arguing over 'the book is red'.

Get a REDACTED life !


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Re: We haven't got up to 'yes" yet!

Postby CompImp » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:15 pm

reineke wrote:
CompImp wrote:I genuinely can't believe you lot have spent 6 pages arguing over 'the book is red'.

Get a REDACTED life !


Welcome to the forum.

Wait a minute....that book isn't red !
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Re: We haven't got up to 'yes" yet!

Postby Ogrim » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:56 pm

CompImp wrote:
Hashimi wrote:
CompImp wrote:I genuinely can't believe you lot have spent 6 pages arguing over 'the book is red'.

Get a REDACTED life !


Well, there are entire PhD theses on the copula or the verb to be.

So ? PhD doesn't automatically mean 'relevant' or 'worth discussing'.


Relevant to whom or what? I wrote a masters thesis on the semantics of the indefinite article in Spanish and while that may not be very relevant to most people it certainly was to me and I had a lot of engaging discussions with my tutor. It’s what drives science, someone willing to explore a seemingly insignificant issue in depth.

By the way I really enjoyed reading this discussion even if I haven’t contributed (I only saw it today).
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Re: We haven't got up to 'yes" yet!

Postby CompImp » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:09 pm

Ogrim wrote:
CompImp wrote:
Hashimi wrote:
CompImp wrote:I genuinely can't believe you lot have spent 6 pages arguing over 'the book is red'.

Get a REDACTED life !


Well, there are entire PhD theses on the copula or the verb to be.

So ? PhD doesn't automatically mean 'relevant' or 'worth discussing'.


Relevant to whom or what? I wrote a masters thesis on the semantics of the indefinite article in Spanish and while that may not be very relevant to most people it certainly was to me and I had a lot of engaging discussions with my tutor. It’s what drives science, someone willing to explore a seemingly insignificant issue in depth.

Let's not over analyse it. Phd was brought up as a credential to try to bat away my thinking this thread is silly, as if silliness gains repute because it's discussed inside a thesis.
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Re: We haven't got up to 'yes" yet!

Postby Ser » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:20 pm

CompImp wrote:Let's not over analyse it. Phd was brought up as a credential to try to bat away my thinking this thread is silly, as if silliness gains repute because it's discussed inside a thesis.

I don't know why you're trying to argue people out of what interests them... It's not like we can help it. This is a language learning forum with a long history of discussion on language learning methods, so people are going to get involved when discussing the ideal type of example sentence in a language textbook. Again, welcome to the forum.

Do you also go to sewing forums like http://everythingsewingforum.net/ to tell them to get a REDACTED life because sewing is so boring?
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Re: We haven't got up to 'yes" yet!

Postby CompImp » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:40 pm

Ser wrote:
CompImp wrote:Let's not over analyse it. Phd was brought up as a credential to try to bat away my thinking this thread is silly, as if silliness gains repute because it's discussed inside a thesis.

I don't know why you're trying to argue people out of what interests them... It's not like we can help it. This is a language learning forum with a long history of discussion on language learning methods, so people are going to get involved when discussing the ideal type of example sentence in a language textbook. Again, welcome to the forum.

Do you also go to sewing forums like http://everythingsewingforum.net/ to tell them to get a REDACTED life because sewing is so boring?

I'm not sure why i thought i would be able to leave a throwaway comment on a thread full of people who would argue over the colour of grass without it being dragged on for like 6 posts. Consider me out :)
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Re: We haven't got up to 'yes" yet!

Postby Cainntear » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:44 pm

CompImp wrote:Let's not over analyse it. Phd was brought up as a credential to try to bat away my thinking this thread is silly, as if silliness gains repute because it's discussed inside a thesis.

That sentence is loaded with implication that you are objectively right and that the discussion is objectively silly, and that as a result anyone who disagrees with you is objectively wrong.

We're having a discussion about the finer points of language here, and if you don't choose to analyse language to this level, that's perfectly fine -- but that doesn't mean it isn't a relevant and interesting discussion to some of us.
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Re: We haven't got up to 'yes" yet!

Postby Cainntear » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:45 pm

CompImp wrote:I'm not sure why i thought i would be able to leave a throwaway comment on a thread full of people who would argue over the colour of grass without it being dragged on for like 6 posts. Consider me out :)

It wasn't just a throwaway comment -- it was a deliberate put down. If you have a go at people on a group you've just joined, you can expect them to defend themselves.
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Re: We haven't got up to 'yes" yet!

Postby Cavesa » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:47 pm

Beli Tsar wrote:
Cavesa wrote:
Random Review wrote:
aaleks wrote:For me as an English-learner having no articles in her native tongue the sentence "The book is red" is a bad sentence/teaching example. If it's "This is a book. The book is red" it's okay but just "The book is red" is doing me a huge disservice because it inadvertently teaches me that the article is not important. The article in this sentence standing alone looks more like an accessory to me rather than a meaningful part of the sentence.


Totally agree. It needs a context at the very least.


Of course the sentence needs context and I highly doubt it was taught without the context and the grammatical explanation.

Leaving aside the methodological/theoretical for a moment, let's not underestimate just how language teaching can be.

I was taught in this way in high school French, and there was very little context and no grammatical explanation for the first 3-4 years. The sentences really were this inane.

The main capacities I gained were the ability to describe the contents of my pencil case, and to enumerate my hobbies. Presumably this was supposed to be interesting and relevant compared to grammatical instruction.

I have no doubt that theory behind the teaching methodology could have worked if put into practice differently. But it wasn't...

That is the problem. Sticking to this for 3-4 years.

Approximately two eternities ago, I started learning French from the classical sentences too. But it worked well, because we were progressing from that stuff quite fast.

That is the problem. Teachers, who spend six months on the first unit of a coursebook, and there are many of those. Or three years without really giving people any explanations.

Not even the stupidest sentence on the planet is a huge problem, if it is one of many you spend time on. But any small set of sentences is likely to be considered stupid by a part of the public exposed to it.

Random Review wrote:
CompImp wrote:I genuinely can't believe you lot have spent 6 pages arguing over 'the book is red'.

Get a REDACTED life !


I teach English for a living (or at least I do when I'm not waiting for a visa... again!) and languages are my biggest hobby (interested in both learning them and in how they work in general). This is my life. :lol:

On a serious note, there's a lot of really good stuff in this thread (and the Krashen one).


I have a life and right now, I don't like it much. The book is red is an awesome distraction from it. Yeah, I shouldn't procrastinate, I know. For further lecturing me on it, please stand at the end of the loooong line. ;-)

Btw welcome to the forum. It has a wonderful feature: you can get out of a thread without finishing it, whenever you feel like it :-)
We all use it, I recommend trying it out. Otherwise, you are likely to read a lot of stuff you may not be that interested in but other people are.

And it was on a different subject initially, not one stupid sentence. Plus there have been good posts added in, as Random Review mentions.
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Re: We haven't got up to 'yes" yet!

Postby CompImp » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:00 pm

Cavesa wrote:
I have a life and right now, I don't like it much. The book is red is an awesome distraction from it. Yeah, I shouldn't procrastinate, I know. For further lecturing me on it, please stand at the end of the loooong line. ;-)

Btw welcome to the forum. It has a wonderful feature: you can get out of a thread without finishing it, whenever you feel like it :-)

I'm trying....but i keep getting quoted by people :lol: :mrgreen: I think someone in particular fancies me.
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