Use of Several Generations of a given Publisher’s Courses?

[Speakeasy]

On behalf of an acquaintance of mine, I am inviting the members to express their views on the advantages and pitfalls of using more than one generation of a given publisher’s language courses for self-instruction. One could extend the scope of the discussion to include more than one generation of courses from several different publishers.

In my obsessive study of German, I have used as many generations of the Linguaphone, Living Language, Assimil, Cortina, Méthode 90, Colloquial, FSI, DLI, and whatever other courses that I could get my hands on, and have absolutely no regrets for having invested (an admittedly misleading word) my time in this way. So then, based on my own experience, I would tend towards recommending a similar programme of study to my acquaintance. Nevertheless, I acknowledge that there are sound arguments against this type of intensive (compulsive) study.

Has anyone else “out there” used more than one generation of a given publisher’s courses? If so, which ones and, based on your experiences, would you recommend this type of study to others? Why so? Why not?

For those of you “out there” who may have briefly considered this type of study but chose to do something else, or would not even waste the time considering this approach to study, what caused you to say “no”; that is, what were the disadvantages that you perceived?

[David1917]

Fantastic approach, especially multiple Assimil generations if available (provided one likes the Assimil method). This is pretty self explanatory because it's just more graded input.

The main issue I've discovered, and this is part of a project/potential write-up I'm working on, is that some courses' later editions are mostly repackaging, and little in the way of actual new material. The example I'm working with is the 2 editions of Colloquial Russian by Kay & Fleming. In the lessons I've previewed, the dialogues are 99% the same, the exercises are the same, and the notes are the same (in the newer edition, the material is overall more "friendly" - a typical trend.) These two authors have also just released an updated version of Colloquial 2 which I'd like to get my hands on to compare with the old one and see what differences exist. I would however recommend the old old original Colloquial book in conjunction with either Kay & Fleming book for a similar approach with vastly different dialogues and exercises.

On the other hand, the two versions of TYS Hindi by Rupert Snell are dissimilar enough that their simultaneous use might be very beneficial. In fact, I intend to do just that very soon. The older version seems a little more dense, as is to be expected (I believe Prof A described it as "infinitely more intelligent"). Check out these dialogues from Unit 1. Same situational dialogue and concepts being taught, but the actual texts are different, making them reinforcable to one another. Unit 2 looks similar, I haven't explored further.

Is this house large? Yes, this house is large, but those houses are small. Is this room large? No, this room is small, but those two rooms are large. Here, there is only one table and one chair, but there, there are two tables and four chairs. Good. Is this small room clean? Yes, this room is clean, but those big rooms aren't clean, they're dirty. Is this table clean? No, it's dirty, but those big tables are clean.

This room is very big! Are the other rooms small? No. Only one room is small, the others are big. Is this big cupboard empty? Yes, of course, both cupboards are empty. And here there's a table and two chairs. Isn't there a fan? There's no fan; but the window is quite big. Very good. The room is clean and very airy.

I would definitely recommend this course of action with multiple Assimils or multiple generations of TYS or Colloquial provided they are as different as the Hindi ones, because you need multiple sources of exposure for reinforcement, and if one particular system is more amenable, then now you have double or triple the amount.

[Skynet]

I used multiple generations of Assimil, Linguaphone, Cortina, Teach Yourself, Method Berlitz and FSI to reboot my French during the summer. I have absolutely no regrets in having spent so much time doing this.

If money and/or access to a well-stocked library is/are not a problem, then I definitely recommend that one should do this for the following reasons:
+ If you come across a concept in Course A Gen 1 that you struggled to grasp, you will see the same concept exemplified and explained in a different way in Course A Gen 2. As David1917 has already stated, the latter editions are typically easier for beginners (read: watered down) than former generations, so succeeding generations should be easier to comprehend.

+ Hyperbolic decrease in marginal time taken to complete succeeding courses: Let me explain this with an example, suppose one takes 140 days to complete Assimil FWOT, one should not spend 113 days on Assimil NFWE. One should take a much shorter time to complete it, perhaps 57 days, as they are no longer novices and have some semblance of a foundation in the language. Subsequent courses, say Linguaphone 1950 with 50 lessons, could even be completed in 1/10th of the time. This is possible when one completes courses in the same range, ie, A1-B1, and I successfully used this technique during the summer.

+ Avoiding revision of the same course a la Assimil Active Wave. Some people find repeating a course untenable. Instead of doing a revision/active wave of the same course, one can use a succeeding course as a revision/active wave and avoid the language-boredom death spiral. Disclaimer: after finishing all of my A1-B1 French courses, I did the active waves of both FWOT and NFWE simultaneously in 2 weeks. Hindsight being 20/20, it was not worth the effort, but I needed something to benchmark future language-learning endeavours against.

+ Different generations are likely to be written at least 2 decades apart, so this gives someone an overview on how colloquial and formal forms of the language have changed over time.

There is only one negative that I can think of:

- Unless someone has a lot of spare time on their hands (ie, summer holiday), doing multiple generations of the same graded courses will leave one in the accursed using-courses-to-infinity doom loop from which one never, ever leaves. In this instance, it would be better to do multiple generations of just one reputable publisher: Assimil (I am sceptical of the 3rd gen German course), Linguaphone (NOT the 4th gen!) or Living Language (NOT the 4th gen!).

[Ug_Caveman]

I am very interested in this topic of discussion - mainly because I'm concerned about acquiring courses that would be superfluous to complete if I've already done a similar course published by the same company ten years earlier with little difference between content.

For example - how different is a Linguaphone [English-based Dutch] course from 1992 compared to one from 1997? I have an option to acquire both right now but don't know if I'd be wasting my money - I also have an option to acquire a Swedish course which seems to be from the 90s, so if I were to buy it, can I safely say I'm not missing out on anything if I don't buy the one they currently sell on their website?

That being said, looking through Assimil's Dutch without Toil vs with Ease course, I certainly see value in terms of breadth of knowledge and practice of basic sentence structure and I wish I'd got my copy of DWT much earlier than I did so I could have doubled my exposure. And I hope that Neerlandais Pratique offers me a similar feeling (once I translate all of the French of course).

[Skynet]

For example - how different is a Linguaphone [English-based Dutch] course from 1992 compared to one from 1997? I have an option to acquire both right now but don't know if I'd be wasting my money - I also have an option to acquire a Swedish course which seems to be from the 90s, so if I were to buy it, can I safely say I'm not missing out on anything if I don't buy the one they currently sell on their website?.

Linguaphone has four generations: a mythical 1st generation that I have never found despite searching online and scouring antique bookstores in two countries from the 1920s-1940s, a 2nd generation with 50 lessons from the 1950s - 1970s (depending on the language), a 3rd generation with 30 lessons from the 1970s - present and a ghastly fourth generation from the 2000s for French and Spanish that I would not touch with a sterilised robotic appendage. If you were to buy the ones from 1992 and 1997, I would hazard a guess that you would be buying two 3rd gen editions.

You would do well to read the superlative feedback on General Linguaphone Discussion.

[David1917]

+ Hyperbolic decrease in marginal time taken to complete succeeding courses: Let me explain this with an example, suppose one takes 140 days to complete Assimil FWOT, one should not spend 113 days on Assimil NFWE. One should take a much shorter time to complete it, perhaps 57 days, as they are no longer novices and have some semblance of a foundation in the language. Subsequent courses, say Linguaphone 1950 with 50 lessons, could even be completed in 1/10th of the time. This is possible when one completes courses in the same range, ie, A1-B1, and I successfully used this technique during the summer

In doing subsequent Assimil courses I'd definitely recommend beginning the 2nd course with the active wave. I'd probably preview the first 50 lessons across a few days, and then begin with a concentrated study of the material at that point, while translating the early dialogues. This would cut the time exactly in half, expose you to new language, and provide new challenges. Excellent point.

[David27]

I’ll be a dissenting voice and say I believe it is counterproductive. You should be able with any course make 2 passes through it, then be able to be diving into native material. If you feel you can’t get into native material at all after working through a course, than it’s a bad book. Going over course after course from companies is going to lead to a long plateau of upper beginner/lower intermediate (and a lighter wallet.. although this would still be far cheaper than a university course or private tutor). At some point you need to dive into the deep end of native material, and then have resources (which for most languages can be found for free online) to go over grammar that you don’t understand and a good online dictionary. For those who do this, I suspect you also just enjoy going through these books and therefore have the patience to do so. For others (such as myself) I find it tedious but a necessary stepping stone to get to native material.

[Starsky]

I am very interested in this topic of discussion - mainly because I'm concerned about acquiring courses that would be superfluous to complete if I've already done a similar course published by the same company ten years earlier with little difference between content.

For example - how different is a Linguaphone [English-based Dutch] course from 1992 compared to one from 1997? I have an option to acquire both right now but don't know if I'd be wasting my money - I also have an option to acquire a Swedish course which seems to be from the 90s, so if I were to buy it, can I safely say I'm not missing out on anything if I don't buy the one they currently sell on their website?

That being said, looking through Assimil's Dutch without Toil vs with Ease course, I certainly see value in terms of breadth of knowledge and practice of basic sentence structure and I wish I'd got my copy of DWT much earlier than I did so I could have doubled my exposure. And I hope that Neerlandais Pratique offers me a similar feeling (once I translate all of the French of course).

LINGUAPHONE 1990s DUTCH PLUS COURSE
At some point in the 1990s Linguaphone produced a Dutch "Plus Course". The cassette version contained the 4 cassettes from the original course (now renamed the Dutch "Starter Course") plus another 4 cassettes containing "aanvullend materiaal" (additional material). The Plus Course would have contained the 4 books of the Starter Course, if I remember correctly ie a handbook with the printed text of all the monologues and dialogues, a handbook going through everything line by line explaining grammar points and vocab, written exercises book, spoken exercises book.
The additional material introduced Flemish Dutch and there was one (possibly 2) books covering this extra stuff. As I remember it covered the same topic areas as the original course giving a Belgian perspective. Linguaphone's advice was to either complete the original Dutch section of the course and then go on to do the Flemish chapters or to work more slowly doing alternate chapters in Dutch/Flemish/Dutch/Flemish and so on. If you're serious about learning Dutch it's definitely worth getting the Plus course, it taught several hundred words extra vocabulary.

[Peluche]

What happened to Speakeasy?

[tractor]

What happened to Speakeasy?

He was banned for breaking the forum rules.