I want to build an app. What do you think?

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Cainntear
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Re: I want to build an app. What do you think?

Postby Cainntear » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:17 am

eido wrote:
Cainntear wrote:What can you do now that gets you closer to that goal, and is worthwhile on its own?

I don't know. Can't think of anything. I'm not gonna be happy with a flashcard app with words on it. I actually thought this was pretty simple, but eh.

If the flashcard app can be expanded, it's a start. If it's the main interface you intend to use to present your material, it's a prototype you can use to check the material works as you're developing it. Whenever you're trying to innovate, you need to be able to "pivot" and change what you're doing based on what works and what doesn't, and what your test audience likes and what they don't.
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Re: I want to build an app. What do you think?

Postby zenmonkey » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:38 pm

Cainntear wrote:The hardest part of making a language app isn't necessarily the coding, it may well be the content. Big software houses avoid personalised courses because you end up needing soooo much content to do it right.

Be careful about letting yourself want to make the app you want to have -- if you were wanting to make a game, you wouldn't be dreaming of making a something better than Skyrim, would you? You'd be happy making a basic single screen platform game for your first attempt.

There's a lot that goes into a language app -- there's coding, teaching styles and just loads and loads of content. You need to identify the minimum viable product (MVP) -- the smallest possible thing you can make that is worthwhile in and of itself. Make that, then expand. But multiple languages and multiple professions is too far in the future to be a good focus for now. What can you do now that gets you closer to that goal, and is worthwhile on its own?


Cainntear is on the money.

Unless you have a lot of experience and a lot of money, this is a process that goes by iterations. Sometimes those steps are small and sometimes you can make larger leaps.

Along with "minimum viable product" there is "minimum marketable feature". This is the smallest group of functionalities that have intrinsic market value - as seen by your users. In other words, the MMF is a real feature that provides tangible value to customers.
It addresses a specific learning need, or solves specific problems. It is a set of feature that can be marketed & sold as a single service or unit. Usually MMF is defined from your MVP when you begin asking potential users for feedback.

For example, if you built a huge service with some core functions but 80% of those features are not ever used then one really should start with those core functions, when you can define them... Thinking about MVP/MMF is all about focusing on high-value features, reducing your initial effort and getting something done a little faster. Then you decide on what needs to be added.

Now sometimes those decisions will be quite personal. For example, a while back Cainntear aptly criticised apps that came out without sound for pronunciation. This is a valid criticism in my opinion. But I still decided to release some apps without sound, because my initial effort to achieve that value was too high. I had (and still have, for some languages) guides to learn the alphabet without sound. It was clear to me, that sound was something I definitely wanted to add along the app life - and today, with more experience and a better network, I tend to add sound from the start.

Start small and build up.
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Re: I want to build an app. What do you think?

Postby ruchikadmore » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:02 pm

zenmonkey wrote:
eido wrote:I don't know. I don't think it's good, but eh. I tried.


It is good, that's a great description. It's exactly how design work should go. In design thinking (before it became the next great thing and a buzz word) we go and gather user stories, which is what you have provided above. Usually, by gathering a few, one can develop a profile, user requirements, process steps ... etc and from there come up with functional needs, design ideas, etc that then make it (or not) into a product.

For example I'll take up two things you mentioned. I'm not criticising these at all, I'd agree but would want to dive in and ask more questions.

1) begin with pronunciation - teach the alphabet. These aren't exactly the same thing - one is the way the language sounds and the other other is how it is represented in the written form. If your audience already knows written English is teaching the alphabet really a focus? Or are we talking about teaching the association of certain written clusters into sound Ximena, Eugenio, Julio, Carmelita xumo, judo, hotel are all representations that Americans would fail to pronounce correctly without instruction. Would it be working on that or more on A, B, C for people that really can't read in Spanish?

2) Having native speakers rate the pronunciation. That would be ideal but is it realistic within an app? it requires getting those speakers, making them available, hosting recordings, etc... so we would add a web sever, web site, etc... Pretty soon that is a big project. Or is there another way of doing this? What is important here, it seems, is that the user get quick feedback on pronunciation? How can we do this with live or automated ways ... (it's something I've been thinking about in another project).

So from these, you can begin to think about a look and feel for this initial part. Still interested? Draw yourself a quick screen of the pronunciation screen as you think it should be -- is it like an Anki card? What does it include...

Now, in terms of a project. Early on you need to ask yourself, "Am I really interested in learning to code?" If yes, great, there are steps for that. If just maybe or not really, or only if I have to - great, then there are ways of learning a bit, creating mock ups and seeing how that might evolve either way and finally, if you are in the camp, no way, no interested in coding - well... that's great too because you can then decide to focus on designing your requirements, other business aspects and finding someone who will do the actual development. And you can change from one camp to the other - but it usually means you've wasted some effort - but it's important to place oneself early on to decide what steps come next in the design process - someone who is doing their own coding needs less formalism in design versus someone who is going to communicate a design to a someone else who is going to execute it.




1. First of all we gather all info about the idea

2. After launch the research about app competitors and targeted market

3. Create a Technical Specification and wireframes

4. After agree on the research and the spec we divide the development process on Sprints and show the result at the end of every Sprint:

Sprint 1: UI design + Server side development + Testing
Sprint 2: iOS/Android development + Testing
Sprint 3: iOS/Android development + Testing
Sprint 4: iOS/Android development + Testing

5. And launching the app based on the marketing researech.

Hope this was helpful
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Re: I want to build an app. What do you think?

Postby zenmonkey » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:00 pm

ruchikadmore wrote:1. First of all we gather all info about the idea

2. After launch the research about app competitors and targeted market

3. Create a Technical Specification and wireframes

4. After agree on the research and the spec we divide the development process on Sprints and show the result at the end of every Sprint:

Sprint 1: UI design + Server side development + Testing
Sprint 2: iOS/Android development + Testing
Sprint 3: iOS/Android development + Testing
Sprint 4: iOS/Android development + Testing

5. And launching the app based on the marketing researech.

Hope this was helpful


Scrum/Agile is a nice methodology but unnecessary in the scope of someone trying to develop their first app idea by themselves. I think the discussion about Minimum Viable Product is more relevant here.

Certainly adding user/target market research is a good idea.
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Re: I want to build an app. What do you think?

Postby Tristano » Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:43 am

eido wrote:
rdearman wrote:I think you should watch Zenmonkeys presentation at the last polyglot conference titled "So you want to write a language app".

Without watching it, I can see the title, and I see that it's the same old trap I always seem to fall into. If you can't do it, then why want to? But I'll watch it and feel bad about myself.

I guess I just have to learn to code, as difficult as it is. I think it's (they're) probably harder than any human language, or maybe that's just the perceived difficulty.
Speakeasy wrote:Okay, your heart is in the right place. So then, …

Difficult choices. There's ESL or ELL services in my local library district, but they always meet on Saturdays at 10 am, right when I start work.

I've thought of starting a Spanish conversation group through Meetup to meet on Saturdays at 6 pm, but I don't imagine there'd be much interest in that. My work schedule is weird.

And yeah, my "heart is in the right place", but my brain isn't. :P


Learning programming is not difficult. Building a professional application used by many customers is a totally different story.
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