Re: The limits of comprehensible input?
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:31 pm
VanPatten
"Input cannot be equated with the staple of much traditional language teaching: explanation about grammar, presentation of vocabulary lists, practice, fill-in-the-blanks, and so on. For mental representation to develop, learners have to hear and see language as it is used to express meaning. There are no shortcuts; representation cannot be taught in the traditional sense of teaching. Input does not guarantee acquisition, however. Nothing does. But acquisition cannot happen in the absence of input."
Both first and second language learners wind up with a highly abstract and complex system we call “language” that defies simple description. Most importantly for the present discussion, the “grammar” of textbooks represents a shorthand way of talking
about something that is too abstract and complex to talk about in non-technical terms. What teachers need to understand is that
the rules and paradigms in textbooks simply aren’t the things that wind up in our heads. They are not “psychologically real.” Once we
understand that mental representation is not the same as textbook rules and paradigms, we can better understand the roles of input
and output.
...without the expression and interpretation of meaning at the core of what we do, input and output become mere techniques.
But input and output are not techniques; they are the very foundations of language acquisition and communication."
December 11, 2017
We should "get over Krashen" ....
Squabbles on social media
Input only
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =14&t=1917
Is it possible to get good output skills without output practice by input alone?
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 7&p=107345
Move to using only native materials
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... nly#p73967
Grammar through massive input (exposure)
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 71&p=54788
Extensive reading and listening. Does it really work?
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 8&start=70
Examples of Input Only
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =14&t=5118
Language: redundancy, accuracy and acquisition
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 35&p=97079
Focus on form
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =14&t=1598
Barf.
"Input cannot be equated with the staple of much traditional language teaching: explanation about grammar, presentation of vocabulary lists, practice, fill-in-the-blanks, and so on. For mental representation to develop, learners have to hear and see language as it is used to express meaning. There are no shortcuts; representation cannot be taught in the traditional sense of teaching. Input does not guarantee acquisition, however. Nothing does. But acquisition cannot happen in the absence of input."
Both first and second language learners wind up with a highly abstract and complex system we call “language” that defies simple description. Most importantly for the present discussion, the “grammar” of textbooks represents a shorthand way of talking
about something that is too abstract and complex to talk about in non-technical terms. What teachers need to understand is that
the rules and paradigms in textbooks simply aren’t the things that wind up in our heads. They are not “psychologically real.” Once we
understand that mental representation is not the same as textbook rules and paradigms, we can better understand the roles of input
and output.
...without the expression and interpretation of meaning at the core of what we do, input and output become mere techniques.
But input and output are not techniques; they are the very foundations of language acquisition and communication."
December 11, 2017
We should "get over Krashen" ....
Squabbles on social media
Input only
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =14&t=1917
Is it possible to get good output skills without output practice by input alone?
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 7&p=107345
Move to using only native materials
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... nly#p73967
Grammar through massive input (exposure)
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 71&p=54788
Extensive reading and listening. Does it really work?
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 8&start=70
Examples of Input Only
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =14&t=5118
Language: redundancy, accuracy and acquisition
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 35&p=97079
Focus on form
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =14&t=1598
Barf.