Sorry if this is the wrong place, what are the A1 B3 C levels about which people talk?

[Kraut]

Examples of a C1 oral part in Spanish DELE

Videos of "DELE C1 - Examen de expresión oral"

Excellent

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyFiAzQTjJk

Pass

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7M7fCS_5Jk

[lavengro]

I think he (she?) is being facetious.

Ciao Xenops,

He, and yeppers re: being facetious about A1 being the realistic top end for English speakers trying to learn Icelandic: the reality surely is closer to approximately A0.5. Re: the "C levels" comment, I might well have added that with my language learning ability, B2 is also mostly just a thing spoken of only in fables for me.

[patrickwilken]

It's easy enough to find this information if you Google, but basically the CEFR (Common European Framework for Reference for Languages) was put together by the Council of Europe as a way of ensuring a common set of criteria to talk about different levels of language abilities across the EU.

The A-B-C basically refer to beginner, intermediate, and advanced levels.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Eu ... _Languages

Note: The CEFR levels refer to the total package of someone's language abilities (reading, listening, speaking, writing). It's quite possible, however, to be better in some areas (e.g., reading) than others (writing). In which case the CEFR levels make less sense.

[Ani]

I might well have added that with my language learning ability, B2 is also mostly just a thing spoken of only in fables for me.

This is likely a result of method, not ability.

[ironfist]

Thanks everyone!

[DaveAgain]

The Council of Europe website is interesting on this.

They have a self assessment grid for each skill, and a one aimed purely at spoken language use.

[patrickwilken]

The Council of Europe website is interesting on this.

They have a self assessment grid for each skill, and a one aimed purely at spoken language use.

Thanks, that's interesting. For German I am all over the place: Listening C1/C2; Reading B2/C1; Spoken B2; Writing A1. Probably should work on the writing!

[garyb]

The Council of Europe website is interesting on this.

They have a self assessment grid for each skill, and a one aimed purely at spoken language use.

I find that these grids and checklists generally don't reflect the exams, and that's my main criticism of the CEFR. I've heard the speaking or read the writing of quite a few people with C1 and C2 certificates in English and in languages I know well, and "Consistently maintains a high degree of grammatical accuracy; errors are rare, difficult to spot and generally corrected when they do occur." applies to very few of them. Lots of basic errors are the norm, and as long as they don't impede understanding they don't seem to be an issue for examiners. The exams seem more focused on what one can do with the language than how correctly they use it - which is a good thing, but it makes these checklists misleading and makes it difficult to really describe someone's level.

If someone can barely write a correct sentence but can talk fluidly and with a wide vocabulary about scientific subjects and write an essay in a specific format well enough to pass the exam, are they C2? Of course they are, the piece of paper says so. If someone speaks a language near-flawlessly (I'll avoid comparison to native ability as that always brings up the "would a native speaker pass?" question, which is beside the point for a system specifically for learners) and meets all the criteria in the grid, but hasn't studied the specific essay and presentation forms, they'd likely fail the exam but I imagine most would still consider them C2.

For this reason, I prefer to see the levels as nothing more than a vague guide. I still think they're the best thing we have to describe language competence in a quick, simple, and relevant way, and my criticism isn't of the system but of its application. I'm quite happy to see these levels thrown around and do so myself, as long as it's clear whether it's a self-assessment or an exam result.

(EDIT: To add to the complication, there are schools and universities that give out B2 or C1 certificates like candy to people who take, for example, a basic English course or a French literature unit. Obviously these don't have the same standing as "serious" tests like DELE and DALF, but still... these people - who in some cases are barely B1 by "checklist" standards - count as B2 or C1 speakers...)

[Querneus]

Just because no one else linked to it, here is zKing's interpretation of the CEFR levels.

https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =14&t=8793

It's intended as a joke as well, of course. A grimly realistic joke.

[Cavesa]

While I agree with garyb's points in many ways, there are two main advantages of the CEFR system compared to any other, and that's why it is still so valuable:

1.Before it, we had the vague worthless descriptions in both CVs and on language courses like "passively fluent", "higher intermediate", "advanced beginner", and so on. CEFR is still much better than that, especially when people really take the exams.

2.The high level CEFR exams are awesome for people like me, who study something else than a language degree and still have the skills equal or better than many of the graduates there and want to use them professionally. Without a C1/C2 exam, my language claims on a CV would always look worthless compared to one of a person with language degree (which has chosen a much easier degree and enjoyed a beautiful youth without much work unlike me, so it is only fair I can prove my skill with a different certificate). But I am far from the only one. I wish there were more ways to get the official recognition of self-studied skills, because the monopoly of the universities needs to be destroyed. CEFR is an excellent example of one's real work and knowledge being recognized and provable to an employer without the necessity to waste several years in a lecture hall.

I hope there the CEFR exams will get improved as the time goes. There is a lot of space for more job oriented exams, for computerized options, for improvement of the assignments and preparation to be as close to the real life as possible.

But in general, the system is already a very good example other areas of education should follow. I hope the 21st century will be the century of autodidacts and alternative education, and that requires such certificates.