New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

General discussion about learning languages
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby PeterMollenburg » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:28 pm

David1917 wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:I must be the only one around here... I just don't see the point of this data/information.


Maybe long run - in a world where "polyglottery" is considered as real a goal as anyone else, who might be encouraged to pursue this endeavor? Someone who tinkers with every toy might become an engineer, etc. I think it's all part of Prof A's quest to legitimize the conscious learning of multiple languages as a worthy pursuit rather than just a (very time consuming) hobby. The "Price of Polyglottery" video and the "Mental Exercise and Discipline" video from the Polyglot Gathering are sort of why I think this.


Yes, perhaps, but it also risks limiting those who tick all or most the boxes to be the ones with the right to learn languages or encouraged more to do so. I think most of us here would feel that if you have a desire to learn languages, regardless of background and personal attributes, you
ought to try it. Plenty of short basketball players out there who love to play baketball (and some are excellent players), artists who don’t paint well but love to do so, or people who have succeeded despite not apparently possessing the ideal characteristics. I say each to their own. Do we always need to strive for the best (people in our society to do certain things)? We are neither robots nor machines, so throw out the stats and go where the motivation resides, as most of us here realise this is more important than being categorised if we want to succeed in learning another language.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby MacGyver » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:19 am

David1917 wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:I must be the only one around here... I just don't see the point of this data/information.


Maybe long run - in a world where "polyglottery" is considered as real a goal as anyone else, who might be encouraged to pursue this endeavor? Someone who tinkers with every toy might become an engineer, etc. I think it's all part of Prof A's quest to legitimize the conscious learning of multiple languages as a worthy pursuit rather than just a (very time consuming) hobby. The "Price of Polyglottery" video and the "Mental Exercise and Discipline" video from the Polyglot Gathering are sort of why I think this.


I don't see the point of this either, and regardless the sample size is surely too small to draw any meaningful conclusions.

As for "polyglottery" what is the point of it? Sure as a hobby, wonderful. But its not going to yield the same professional opportunities as studying to be an engineer, lawyer... or becoming C2 in one or two languages.....
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby David1917 » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:24 pm

MacGyver wrote:
David1917 wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:I must be the only one around here... I just don't see the point of this data/information.


Maybe long run - in a world where "polyglottery" is considered as real a goal as anyone else, who might be encouraged to pursue this endeavor? Someone who tinkers with every toy might become an engineer, etc. I think it's all part of Prof A's quest to legitimize the conscious learning of multiple languages as a worthy pursuit rather than just a (very time consuming) hobby. The "Price of Polyglottery" video and the "Mental Exercise and Discipline" video from the Polyglot Gathering are sort of why I think this.


I don't see the point of this either, and regardless the sample size is surely too small to draw any meaningful conclusions.

As for "polyglottery" what is the point of it? Sure as a hobby, wonderful. But its not going to yield the same professional opportunities as studying to be an engineer, lawyer... or becoming C2 in one or two languages.....


I'm not sure the point either, though I also don't really consider the only point to an endeavor being its applicability for the job market (as I struggle to justify pursuing a humanities-based PhD). He does talk a lot about the "polyglot" as the ideal teacher of foreign languages to the "normal" learner. The sage of all things language as it were. I think people put undue emphasis on the native speaker as the best teacher (see: "Teach English in China!" advertisements), and perhaps this is his call to action for a paradigm shift.

PeterMollenburg wrote:Yes, perhaps, but it also risks limiting those who tick all or most the boxes to be the ones with the right to learn languages or encouraged more to do so. I think most of us here would feel that if you have a desire to learn languages, regardless of background and personal attributes, you ought to try it. Plenty of short basketball players out there who love to play baketball (and some are excellent players), artists who don’t paint well but love to do so, or people who have succeeded despite not apparently possessing the ideal characteristics. I say each to their own. Do we always need to strive for the best (people in our society to do certain things)? We are neither robots nor machines, so throw out the stats and go where the motivation resides, as most of us here realise this is more important than being categorised if we want to succeed in learning another language.


Sure, anyone who sucks at painting can still paint, but will they get shown in galleries? It's not about "the right" it's about what you might take to more easily. Some grown people are afraid to calculate a tip at a restaurant without an app (because even multiplying by 0.2 on a calculator is too much to ask), and some people smash through AP Calculus in their junior year. Will the first person ever become a physicist? Probably not. Can the first person love Carl Sagan and Star Trek and be generally interested in the subject? Absolutely.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby MacGyver » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:41 am

David1917 wrote:I'm not sure the point either, though I also don't really consider the only point to an endeavor being its applicability for the job market (as I struggle to justify pursuing a humanities-based PhD). He does talk a lot about the "polyglot" as the ideal teacher of foreign languages to the "normal" learner. The sage of all things language as it were. I think people put undue emphasis on the native speaker as the best teacher (see: "Teach English in China!" advertisements), and perhaps this is his call to action for a paradigm shift.


I don't agree with the idea that a polyglot would be better than a native speaker to be honest. I would rather learn Korean from a native speaker who as learnt 1 or 2 languages to a high level rather than from a Spanish speaker who as knowledge of 12 other languages, including Korean, to varying degrees.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby Beli Tsar » Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:37 pm

MacGyver wrote:I don't agree with the idea that a polyglot would be better than a native speaker to be honest. I would rather learn Korean from a native speaker who as learnt 1 or 2 languages to a high level rather than from a Spanish speaker who as knowledge of 12 other languages, including Korean, to varying degrees.

Doesn't FSI split the difference and have one native speaker and one non-native?

That always sounded ideal to me - pronunciation, idiom, cultural insight from the native speaker, and from someone who shares your L1 into the particular problems you will have with that L2?

Certainly both of those groups seem to have pretty huge blind spots when you have them as teachers, and if we can't afford the simultaneous FSI method, there's something to be said for different teachers at different times.

And in that case a real polyglot could bring deep perspective, as well as insight into learning methods.

There's a reason newbies like me come to this site to learn how to learn...
Last edited by Beli Tsar on Thu Nov 22, 2018 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby David1917 » Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:38 pm

Beli Tsar wrote:There's a reason newbies like me come to this site to learn how to learn...


That's the crux of Prof's argument I believe.
Last edited by David1917 on Thu Nov 22, 2018 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby David1917 » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:41 pm

Beli Tsar wrote:
MacGyver wrote:I don't agree with the idea that a polyglot would be better than a native speaker to be honest. I would rather learn Korean from a native speaker who as learnt 1 or 2 languages to a high level rather than from a Spanish speaker who as knowledge of 12 other languages, including Korean, to varying degrees.

Doesn't FSI split the difference and have one native speaker and one non-native?

That always sounded ideal to me - pronunciation, idiom, cultural insight from the native speaker, and from someone who shares your L1 into the particular problems you will have with that L2?


That combination is the most ideal to me as well. I believe Assimil used/uses it to some extent, Colloquial does, and Made Simple did that to the great benefit of having the same author write all the course books and then tweak them to each language with a native.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby SGP » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:51 pm

Maybe not directly related to the YT videos, but still on-topic I guess :):
does anybody know if Prof Argüelles/Arguelles [have seen both spellings] mentioned anywhere that he also _thinks_ in some foreign languages? And if yes, which one/s?
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby Iversen » Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:34 pm

I'm fairly sure that he thinks in a lot of languages. I have met him several times at the Polyglot conferences, and I have heard him speak at least a dozen languages without any hesitation - and also switch effortlessly between them. I fail to understand how you can do that if you can't also think in at least the same number of languages.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby SGP » Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:59 pm

Iversen wrote:I'm fairly sure that he thinks in a lot of languages. I have met him several times at the Polyglot conferences, and I have heard him speak at least a dozen languages without any hesitation - and also switch effortlessly between them. I fail to understand how you can do that if you can't also think in at least the same number of languages.


It is also at least difficult for me to imagine how someone could effortless switch without actually doing some major thinking in each of them. This is because those who all the time mentally translate (like English <-> Spanish), I wouldn't expect them to be too fluent...
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