New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

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BeaP
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby BeaP » Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:52 pm

For me the whole thing is a contradiction.

1. You can learn and maintain 6 languages. (That's what the brain is designed for. It's a kind of limit.)
2. After 6 it just becomes easier.
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thevagrant88
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby thevagrant88 » Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:17 am

The professor has always been something of an idealist. I find a lot of value in this talk, but I don’t take take it as gospel. It’s one perspective of many.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby thevagrant88 » Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:32 am

einzelne wrote:I must admit I still don't get this take: "There are some tribes in Africa that can speak in 6 languages, hence you can definitely learn 6 languages, including some exotic ones, to read classical books in them". So, someone can negotiate a deal on the market, or have a small talk in several languages — how on Earth can you extrapolate from that that an average Joe will be able to read, say, Goethe, Proust, Dante, Homer, Koran, and Cervantes in the original?..


He didn’t suggest that. He was very clear to suggest there was nothing wrong at learning them to different levels and for specific reasons. He also advocated learning an endangered language if it suited your fancy. In this video, he never once stresses that the reason for learning languages was solely for reading.

He also said that not everybody should do this, that there are many other pursuits in life that are worthwhile and that life would be boring if everybody just learned languages. I’m not sure what video you watched.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby einzelne » Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:58 am

thevagrant88 wrote:He didn’t suggest that.


I believe you missed the last sentence:

As for my emphasis on polytliteracy and reading Great Books in the original - this is not something that I have "come to" but rather something I have always had.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby Querneus » Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:26 am

BeaP wrote:You don't need to have a perfect command of these languages unless you're an interpreter or a spy.

This makes me wonder what phonetic training spies undergo exactly. Or do agencies rely on heritage speakers who already come with a near-perfect accent? Hmm. :D
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby thevagrant88 » Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:44 am

einzelne wrote:
thevagrant88 wrote:He didn’t suggest that.


I believe you missed the last sentence:

As for my emphasis on polytliteracy and reading Great Books in the original - this is not something that I have "come to" but rather something I have always had.


That one sentiment does not invalidate my previous point. Polyliteracy was not the focus of the video at all. That is his personal emphasis on polyliteracy, not a prescription for it and he touches on it only briefly in the span of 20 minutes. The quote that you presented here out of context reafirms that: it doesn’t corroborated you initial comment at all. You can’t simply ignore the entire rest of the video where goes over many other reasons at much greater length as to why and how people can become polyglots. Your initial comment was grossly misleading.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby einzelne » Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:33 am

thevagrant88 wrote:You can’t simply ignore the entire rest of the video where goes over many other reasons at much greater length as to why and how people can become polyglots. Your initial comment was grossly misleading.


It's not the first time when Argüelles is peddling this idea of "the magic six", so I don't need to watch it because I'm quite familiar with it. But I watched the video anyway and no, I didn't misrepresent it:

Likewise i would say that thinking about the the question of how many languages can you take and develop to a high level to the level of really being able to pick up a novel that's written in them and just sit down and read it and enjoy it and maintain that level and use that level um sixish is about the same number that you would be able to to do that in to maintain that in so somehow it does seem like this this rough number of six is a factor that's been almost designed programmed uh into our brains
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby thevagrant88 » Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:08 am

Again, what your saying simply isn’t true because you’re ignoring the overwhelming majority of what he said. No one would watch that video and say that “polyliteracy” was its focus of the video. Does he mention reading a few times? Certainly. Was that the thesis? No.

einzelne wrote:…so I don't need to watch it…


I hope you understand this is a very bad argument. I don’t know if your admitting that you commented before you watched the content or not, but you’re certainly confirming bias.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby Le Baron » Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:20 am

It is a bold claim indeed. And there is always a slew of safety-net 'howevers' alongside what appears to be a prescription. It's a bit odd to put forward a view that 6 languages is some sort of requirement for 'educated people', or hard-wired, but then to say 'however you don't have to do this because also this...'

I don't believe there is any requirement or number for anyone educated or not. Outside of deliberate learning like people here, the ordinary person learns languages only out of sheer necessity and prefers not to because it's a chore. The facts on the ground tells us that this also varies between people. So these fantasy island perspectives where 'most Europeans speak about 3 languages' or 'in Africa people employ 6 languages' turn out to be dubious falsehoods based upon guesswork. Along the lines of: 'this region has 4 or 5 indigenous languages, plus a colonial language or two circulating around, therefore all the people must be using them to get along successfully.

We already know the truth that in African countries where French is the 'official language', only a small, elite percentage speak it properly, if at all. That the majority of people have a true native language and then any others are from necessity, because there is either a mix of origins or it's a place where many peoples meet for economic reasons. And not all have mastery of every language being used.

I'm well up for developing diverse language knowledge, yet the idea that it's somehow inbuilt or there are quantifiable numbers for how many languages and what the diverse mix should ideally be seems to me so much pseudo-theoretical quackery.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby BeaP » Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:57 am

I think the real problem is that academics are supposed to have coherent views, where things click in their place, everything is logical and statements are backed up. On the other hand, this is not a scientific research group or conference, Argüelles basically steps in the position of a youtube polyglot and should be 'judged' according to the criteria of that specific environment. He talks about his ideas or theories that he backs up with anecdotic proofs (his own experience) or some vague notion about the world. Regardless of the medium, this is still strange from an academic, and I understand einzelne's cognitive dissonance.
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