New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

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leosmith
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby leosmith » Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:27 am

jeff_lindqvist wrote:The Nature Method for Learning Foreign Languages - What is it & Why isn't it Better Known?:
There are many language programs, and even a language school, that employs the "natural method", so it's a mystery to me why he says it's not well known. Rosetta Stone, French in Action, ALG (a language school in Thailand)... it's as if he is only relying on his memory to come up with sources.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby RyanSmallwood » Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:18 pm

I think potentially part of his unstated criteria is he's more in textbook based resources, although he's also discussed audio only methods in the past. (Though I know French in Action has a textbook component as well, though I don't think its pure TL like the videos, but I could be wrong.)

I think there's also some that he's aware of but chose not to mention for whatever reason, in the comments people mention the project to make a LLPSI type course for Ancient Greek, and he says that he knew about it already. The Berlitz Think And Talk and Basic Course methods he's discussed before also use a similar approach with audio sound effects that he doesn't mention here.

And even though he has an awareness of quite a few resources and has done a great job of highlighting some quality forgotten ones, I do think his avoidance of the internet causes him to have some blind spots. I remember in his video on re-considering Pimsleur he reveals that his first evaluation of the method was based on the fact that his library only had the first level and he had assumed that was the entire course. He also doesn't seem to keep up with all more recent approaches especially ones that use apps and programs.

So while there's a lot of valuable things to be learned from the kinds of resources he's interested in, I also wouldn't rely on him to keep up with which methods are trendy or not in the language learning community.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:32 pm

It could also be that he was thinking of those specific courses by the same publisher, and not just "any" nature method. (And as we can see in the Nature Method topic, people still ask what it is, whereas I've been familiar with it for more than 30 years through ads - I even got hold of a nearly complete English course, as booklets with one or two lessons each.)
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby einzelne » Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:10 pm

leosmith wrote:There are many language programs, and even a language school, that employs the "natural method", so it's a mystery to me why he says it's not well known.


The Nature Method ≠ "natural" approaches.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:29 pm

Do you want to be fluent in a foreign language? Then this is what you will need to do...:


Duration: 24:18

(I haven't watched it yet.)
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby einzelne » Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:37 pm

jeff_lindqvist wrote:Do you want to be fluent in a foreign language? Then this is what you will need to do...:


1) a foundational phase, 2) a consolidation phase, and 3) a polishing phase

Prof forgot to add the last and the most important one: 4) a 'forget about it' phase...
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby luke » Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:34 am

einzelne wrote:
jeff_lindqvist wrote:Do you want to be fluent in a foreign language? Then this is what you will need to do...

1) a foundational phase, 2) a consolidation phase, and 3) a polishing phase

I thought this one was worth listening to a second time and making some notes.

Fluent = near-native - what does it take? 24-25 years for our native language.

He discusses three main paths:
1) FSI-like intensive training
2) University study
3) Self study

3 stages:
1) Foundational - systematically and fundamentally understanding grammar and learning 5-6000 words:
FSI intensive - 5 hours classes + 3 hours study per day = 40 hours per week (6 months or so for FSI class I language)
University courses 180 hours per semester, 4 semesters (2 years) = 720 hours
Self study - 600-700 hours - speaking, listening, reading, immersion stay, read books and shadow audiobooks

2) Consolidating - expanding vocabulary to 12k or more
FSI on the job in immersion environment for a couple years
University years 3 and 4 taking 2-3 courses per semester
Self study - speaking, listening, reading, immersion stay, read books and shadow audiobooks, page turners, thrillers, action novels, etc - 2 years 2 hours per day

3) Refining/polishing stage
FSI model not discussed much - you will be in an immersion environment - probably have to study to get to near native fluency.
University graduate school - full time language study
Self Study - 4 hours per day - thinking in Target Language "change your operating system", get a high level linguistically trained tutor, read the classics of your TL in your TL, write a lot, journal and have that reviewed by your tutor.

How long might it take to get to near native fluency?
FSI Class I = 2 + 2 + 2 years = 6 years
FSI Class II = 9 - 12 years
FSI Class III = 15 years
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby einzelne » Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:43 pm

luke wrote:How long might it take to get to near native fluency?
FSI Class I = 2 + 2 + 2 years = 6 years
FSI Class II = 9 - 12 years
FSI Class III = 15 years


And for FSI Class IV? Never? :lol:
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:50 pm

The Path of the Polyglot: Lessons from a Lifetime of Language Learning:


Duration: 10 min 18sec.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby Querneus » Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:26 am

einzelne wrote:
luke wrote:How long might it take to get to near native fluency?
FSI Class I = 2 + 2 + 2 years = 6 years
FSI Class II = 9 - 12 years
FSI Class III = 15 years


And for FSI Class IV? Never? :lol:

With a simple statistical projection of the class I-III values, it'd seem they take 20 years. :)

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