New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

General discussion about learning languages
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luke
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby luke » Sat Nov 13, 2021 11:55 pm

David1917 wrote:
AllSubNoDub wrote:Simultaneously Listening to the L2, Speaking the L2, Understanding the L2


In the old hour-long video on Shadowing, he did say that the final stage would be to take the audio from an Assimil course and go on a long walk and shadow the whole thing without the book, and understand everything. Theoretically, one should also be able to do that with an unknown text as well at some point.

So shadowing is positioned as an exercise for listening, understanding, speaking, pronunciation. Very broad skill coverage.

So, the reading part that accompanies earlier phases of shadowing is meant more like training wheels, although not forbidden at advanced stages?

I thought one of the things Professor's described in his "shadowing march" was having the book in front of him.

His "going for a run" didn't sound like it had a book, but it didn't have any shadowing either.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby AllSubNoDub » Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:03 am

David1917 wrote:
AllSubNoDub wrote:I'm not sure if I misunderstood all these years or if the professor just changed his mind, but it appears the ultimate form is actually:

Simultaneously Listening to the L2, Speaking the L2, Understanding the L2


In the old hour-long video on Shadowing, he did say that the final stage would be to take the audio from an Assimil course and go on a long walk and shadow the whole thing without the book, and understand everything. Obviously, there were more posts and discussions on the "middle" stages of doing it with an Assimil course, and I too would occasionally forget the final stage of just being able to do the whole thing audio only, coming full-circle to where you theoretically began.


You're referring to this video from 12 years ago. He never said in the video that it was audio only, or rather, he didn't mention anywhere in the video (I looked) to explicitly discard the text. Maybe it seems clear in hindsight given the new information, but I did not understand it that time. Thank you for pointing out my flaws and follies King David, I am not worthy. orz

I fixed the quote for you.

luke wrote:I thought one of the things Professor's described in his "shadowing march" was having the book in front of him.


This.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby David1917 » Sun Nov 14, 2021 1:14 am

luke wrote:
David1917 wrote:
AllSubNoDub wrote:Simultaneously Listening to the L2, Speaking the L2, Understanding the L2


In the old hour-long video on Shadowing, he did say that the final stage would be to take the audio from an Assimil course and go on a long walk and shadow the whole thing without the book, and understand everything. Theoretically, one should also be able to do that with an unknown text as well at some point.


So shadowing is positioned as an exercise for listening, understanding, speaking, pronunciation. Very broad skill coverage.


Sort of, yes. In relation to the new lectures based on Robert A Hall's book, it might be classified also as "habit formation" which the second discussion circle touches on a bit. Get a broad feel of the language's lilt in your ears & mouth, and begin to understand it by peeling back layers of each lesson with each passing day. I don't think of it as a strict pronunciation exercise though - that is, compared to something like minimal pair exercises. You don't really get enough time to stop and work on the various sounds.

So, the reading part that accompanies earlier phases of shadowing is meant more like training wheels, although not forbidden at advanced stages?


Based on the new "advanced shadowing" videos where the goal is to just narrate something to yourself (probably borne from his personal enjoyment with shadowing in general in the early stages of several languages, found a way to keep doing it), it might be that the reading in 2 languages is your training to understand and internalize that one coursebook when meeting a new language. Nothing is forbidden - everyone does what feels best for them when learning & using a language.

I thought one of the things Professor's described in his "shadowing march" was having the book in front of him.


He just says to take the audio and go out and do it. Maybe book was implied, maybe it wasn't. I would think that carrying a book at eye-level for 2 hours might get real old real fast. And he mentioned doing this after talking about having the recording on in the background while you just do the dishes or something and understand everything, which led me to believe that you're mostly done with the book at that point.

His "going for a run" didn't sound like it had a book, but it didn't have any shadowing either.


Yeah going for a run was just listening to an audiobook. Personally, I listen to Pantera when I run.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby David1917 » Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:31 pm



Lecture Number 3. This one has the most commentary up front on reasons for learning languages, and reprogramming yourself to enjoy the process & succeed.

Europeans: Discussion Circle has been purposely moved to 10AM Central US to accommodate your afternoon/evening. He will do this once every 2nd or 3rd week.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby luke » Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:40 pm

David1917 wrote:Lecture Number 3.

You got a call-out in the follow-up:



I found the discussions around substitution, variation, and correlation drills interesting, particularly considering the author's (Hall) background with SLS (Spoken Language Services) and FSI.

Also liked Katrina's perspective on Greek and its pronunciations as well as the "born into it" benefit, which she broadened to all languages with a literary tradition.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby David1917 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:10 am

Ha, that's pretty funny. A small comment about the importance of "play" in Jazz really went off the rails there!

I liked this discussion a lot, especially having native speakers of other languages that could talk about diachronic reading in Greek or Slavic intelligibility.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:00 pm

Lecture 4:
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:22 pm

Discussion circle I/4:
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby David1917 » Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:24 pm

Only 2 hours long, too!
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby einzelne » Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:01 pm

David1917 wrote:Only 2 hours long, too!


Yes, you only have 2 hours per day for your language related activities. What should you do? Read in French, German, Latin, or Italian. To hell with all that! Let's listen to another 2h talk on language learning! :D
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