New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

General discussion about learning languages
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Wed Jan 05, 2022 5:19 pm

This was posted some days ago:

Atomic Habits, New Year's Resolutions, and Polyitis


And this one earlier today:
Teach Yourself a Language in 15 Minutes a Day: Step-by-Step Demonstration
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby David1917 » Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:42 pm

I've taken "Study Skills Reality Check" and the newest 15-min demonstration and given them a bit of thought.

For myself, I had set up 4x15-min sessions in evenings where I would pace around my apartment & shadow recordings. This due to the fact that inclement weather often prevents the ability to go for walks and get the ideal 10K daily steps in. I was doing Greek (which I am gaining some familiarity with due to Language Transfer), Hindi (some familiarity due to studying the TYS book), Latin (some familiarity due to knowing some of the daughter languages), and Irish (no familiarity).

Previously, I had found the system of listening to Persian and Hungarian while on a bicycle commute to positively augment my textbook study of those languages. Previewing the Icelandic course worked pretty well when I eventually sat down to it, though this could be chalked up to some transparency knowing German & Old English.

Upon further reflection, though, I think most of this recent attempt has been a waste of time. Irish is completely untransparent, so I either need to drop it or begin actually working with a text, and I'd rather devote 15 more minutes each to Greek & Hindi with a text in the way Prof Arguelles shows than just chasing a semblance of understanding via a recording. The same with Latin - I might as well read LLPSI rather than vaguely beginning to understand other Latin recordings. The reason it "worked" before was I had no choice but to be commuting, but being at home with the option of using a text, it makes more sense to actually do that.

I think another reason I embarked on this was due to his original suggestion years and years ago about "blind shadowing" a tape until you just can't stand not knowing it anymore, in order to get a grip on the phonology & general lilt of a new language. However, for me these are the easiest parts of a new language and so I don't think it's really worth spending that much extra time focusing on JUST that.

So, I might instead try to get some time pacing & shadowing material I can understand well like Russian or Spanish audiobooks, the Assimil Persian course, or something else.

Regarding the 15-min session he posted, that is a new method compared to his previous suggestion, of which I had adapted my own variation. Therefore, I may attempt this method of drilling one lesson 5-6x in one session (instead of drilling it over the course of 6-7 days) with Hindi & Greek, instead of the 15-min pacing sessions. We shall see how much this improves understanding and at what pace.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby Fortheo » Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:45 pm

That 15 minute a day method seems impossible to me. I don't understand how he can shadow an Assimil lesson on the very first listen in a language that is new to him. I would not be able to do that as a beginner in a language without having heard the lesson once or twice before hand.

I'm also amazed at his ability to scan sentences in two languages at the same exact time.

Long story short, I don't think that method is realistic for me, although I wish it was.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby Vordhosbn » Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:17 pm

In case anyone missed this on the latest video:
Alexander Arguelles wrote:Hello everyone! Thank you for the warm reception you have given all my videos, and especially this one. I have been uploading two videos a week (Tuesdays and Saturdays) since I began broadcasting again in late September, so you may have come to expect that schedule. This is to let you know, then, that I need to cut back to one video per week, for a while at least, so that I can work on my new website, setting up my virtual academy, answering the many comments that come it to the videos, and so on. For the foreseeable future, I will aim to publish videos on Thursday afternoons. Thanks for your understanding and support!
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby zenmonkey » Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:46 am

Fortheo wrote:That 15 minute a day method seems impossible to me. I don't understand how he can shadow an Assimil lesson on the very first listen in a language that is new to him. I would not be able to do that as a beginner in a language without having heard the lesson once or twice before hand.

I'm also amazed at his ability to scan sentences in two languages at the same exact time.

Long story short, I don't think that method is realistic for me, although I wish it was.

It should not be impossible to you.

Please re-watch the lesson and he explains that normally he would be much more halting and hesitant in his shadowing. He's explaining in a language he already speaks so that he can focus on the method - not on his ability.

What he is suggesting you do: (I don't feel this is particularly new, it's about what he suggested in the old forum...)

1) Blind shadow - listen and repeat without the book, repeat as well as you can. With Assimil, as you get along with lessons, this blind shadowing will allow you to recognize that you already know, even early on some of the words and connector from prior lessons.

2) Shadowing in L2/reading L1 or target shadowing while reading in your language - listen and repeat for understanding while you read in your language. You're simply trying to get the context - early on you can do this in one read in the first lessons, you might need to repeat as you go forward to the more advanced lessons.

3) L2 shadowing/reading L2 - all done in the target language. Third pass. Not trying for perfection, just developing more understanding.

4) Study the lesson, notes, and exercises.

5) Blind shadow again - listen and repeat without the book or distractions. By now you should have an imperfect understanding of 80-90%.

These five steps take about 10 minutes in the early lessons and can be repeated over two days in later lessons if you feel you need to cover them more. You aren't looking for the perfection of the shadowing in the video. Don't compare yourself to someone who has been professionally learning languages for 20+ years.

He then suggests you spend another 5-10 minutes going over material from prior lessons or sticky points you feel you didn't get. There is an expectation that it is ok to be imperfect.

For me, the big highlight is the amount of out loud repetition that he recommends. I study outside sometimes, or around other people and I forget to focus on vocalizing. But I need to remind myself if I want to speak, than I need to practice to speak. Nothing else counts as much.

[tags: #tagMethodAssimil]
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby luke » Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:01 pm

zenmonkey wrote:For me, the big highlight is the amount of out loud repetition that he recommends. I study outside sometimes, or around other people and I forget to focus on vocalizing. But I need to remind myself if I want to speak, than I need to practice to speak.

Speaking out loud and multiple times stuck out to me as well. It can be both practice and a barometer. If I can't do it very well, or only a few words, it's feedback. If I can do it all and with ease, then progress is quite evident.

Putting the 15 minutes a day into the longer term, he never said he goes through the book once. From that, I take it that progress and improvement are the goals, not elusive perfection.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby Fortheo » Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:41 pm

zenmonkey wrote:It should not be impossible to you.

Please re-watch the lesson and he explains that normally he would be much more halting and hesitant in his shadowing. He's explaining in a language he already speaks so that he can focus on the method - not on his ability.

What he is suggesting you do: (I don't feel this is particularly new, it's about what he suggested in the old forum...)

1) Blind shadow - listen and repeat without the book, repeat as well as you can. With Assimil, as you get along with lessons, this blind shadowing will allow you to recognize that you already know, even early on some of the words and connector from prior lessons.

2) Shadowing in L2/reading L1 or target shadowing while reading in your language - listen and repeat for understanding while you read in your language. You're simply trying to get the context - early on you can do this in one read in the first lessons, you might need to repeat as you go forward to the more advanced lessons.

3) L2 shadowing/reading L2 - all done in the target language. Third pass. Not trying for perfection, just developing more understanding.

4) Study the lesson, notes, and exercises.

5) Blind shadow again - listen and repeat without the book or distractions. By now you should have an imperfect understanding of 80-90%.

These five steps take about 10 minutes in the early lessons and can be repeated over two days in later lessons if you feel you need to cover them more. You aren't looking for the perfection of the shadowing in the video. Don't compare yourself to someone who has been professionally learning languages for 20+ years.

He then suggests you spend another 5-10 minutes going over material from prior lessons or sticky points you feel you didn't get. There is an expectation that it is ok to be imperfect.

For me, the big highlight is the amount of out loud repetition that he recommends. I study outside sometimes, or around other people and I forget to focus on vocalizing. But I need to remind myself if I want to speak, than I need to practice to speak. Nothing else counts as much.

[tags: #tagMethodAssimil]


Impossible may have been the wrong word -- I just don't think it would be the best use of 15 minutes for me personally.

It's all the multi-tasking that gets me. I simply struggle with it. Blind shadowing has a place for me, but as a complete beginner going into an Assimil course with the pauses truncated as he suggests, blind shadowing as the very first step would be quite an ugly experience and quickly demotivating for me, and I say this from my own experience :lol:. Blind shadowing wouldn't show me what I already know in this situation -- how could it? I'm a complete beginner that knows nothing -- it would merely remind me of how much I don't know, which is demoralizing for me as a beginner. I personally would prefer one pass through for just focused listening first, then one pass through for shadowing, but obviously this takes up more time and goes beyond the 15 minute limit.

With the next step, multi tasking is again the issue for me. I don't find that I get the most out of listening to L2 while I'm reading L1 at the same time. My mind tends to more so want to focus on one task at a time, and I get a better understanding when I do one thing at a time, thus I'd rather read the L1 sentence on it's own, then focus on listening to the L2 sentence on it's own and make my way through the lesson like that; but again that is more time consuming.

It's just a matter of what I myself find most efficient and rewarding for me, and personally his 15 minute approach suggested in that video wouldn't be maintainable for my learning style.

I do agree that the biggest take away is all the vocalization that he does during a lesson, and that is something I'd definitely focus on more.

*edited multiple times due to the site freezing on me multiple times :| *
Last edited by Fortheo on Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:02 pm

It's not impossible. Follow zenmonkey's advice. Your ears will improve.

I never truncated the Assimil lessons (too much hassle back in the days), but nowadays Youtube has a tool that can at least speed up audio. So now I'm shadowing target language content every day, at 2x speed. For 15 minutes.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby jmar257 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:09 pm

luke wrote:
zenmonkey wrote:For me, the big highlight is the amount of out loud repetition that he recommends. I study outside sometimes, or around other people and I forget to focus on vocalizing. But I need to remind myself if I want to speak, than I need to practice to speak.

Speaking out loud and multiple times stuck out to me as well. It can be both practice and a barometer. If I can't do it very well, or only a few words, it's feedback. If I can do it all and with ease, then progress is quite evident.

Same, while I prefer 20-30 minute chunks daily (and doing multiple if time/motivation allows) that doesn't mean I can't take something from his video. The biggest thing to me was to shadow more--instead of passively listening to audio when I go through Assimil, most of the time I should be shadowing.
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Re: New Prof Argüelles Youtube Series

Postby Fortheo » Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:49 pm

jeff_lindqvist wrote:It's not impossible. Follow zenmonkey's advice. Your ears will improve.

I never truncated the Assimil lessons (too much hassle back in the days), but nowadays Youtube has a tool that can at least speed up audio. So now I'm shadowing target language content every day, at 2x speed. For 15 minutes.



Yeah, as I mentioned above, it's definitely not impossible -- Prof Argüelles does it to great success. It just doesn't suit me. When I'm a beginner in a language I don't enjoy the first step that he suggests (i'd much rather just focus on listening only the first time, and do another run through for blind shadowing as a review ), and I never enjoy reading L1 at the same exact time as listening to L2. Could I do it? yes, but I wouldn't enjoy it at all and it would frustrate me. If I don't enjoy the process, then I don't get as much out of it and it becomes unmaintainable for me. Maintainability is key when talking about a 15 minute per day method, afterall, so If I can't maintain the routine then it's largely moot for me.

None of this is said to discredit his approach or anything like that (I actually find his approach fascinating), and I think there's lots of good information in that video; but in regards to a 15 minute a day routine, I just don't think that exact method would be the one for me.

If any of you are following that exact routine, I'd love to read about your experiences.
Last edited by Fortheo on Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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