Hi everyone,
since my language log is in Dutch and not many users read it, plus I very seldom add an entry to it, for many of you would be surprising to hear that I'm studying Bulgarian. For some of you the real problem would be "eh? who are you? first time I read something from you", which is understandable, but ok
Understandably I didn't get a single "you are study Bulgarian??? Cool, me too! Hey, I speak C2 Bulgarian! Hey, it is in my language wishlist!" and if I got it, then I woke up all sweaty
So yes, I feel the desire to talk about it. I would especially like to hear if someone of you had experience with it or with languages related to it, like Macedonian or more far away, Serbian-Croatian-Bosnian, and got to read some Bulgarian for fun or met some native speaker and tried communicating etc. These kind of things.
So far I think I have a vocabulary of around 400 words plus all the loans coming from Latin or whatever other language I know.
Learning the vocabulary is in my experience the biggest obstacle since my learning method always puts reading and listening central.
It is also my first Slavic language, although I can understand some Slavic words due some previous study of Romanian.
So these are my findings, so far:
- alphabet/pronunciation: über easy. Cyrillic is fantastic and very phonetic. This is especially true with Bulgarian. I can hear new words in Bulgarian and write them down correctly 95% of the times. Dutch was much tougher in this aspect. The first time I heard the word "vereniging" I wrote down "ferenefijn" lol. When I make mistakes in Bulgarian it is almost always "с" vs "з" or "я" vs "ия".
- stress: not great. I tend to get it right the 60% of the times but I don't know why and it looks there are no rules.
- grammar: easy(ish). Three genders, but easy to distinguish because they are easily derived by the endings (consonant for masculine, a for feminine, other vowel for neuter). Vocative case and accusative for personal pronouns. Clear word order. The pronouns are quite logical, less messy than in Germanic languages in my opinion. There is the verb to be unlike other Slavic languages, there is determined article (although postfixed like Romanian). The verbal system is the worst of all Slavic languages, but I don't actually need to learn everything about it to communicate at a basic level.
- vocabulary: obviously difficult unless you know already a slavic language, but enough foreign loans to have some discount.
As a fact I find it much less daunting than I found Dutch years ago (but I do have much more experience now). As a difficulty I would compare it with German. Where German is difficult, Bulgarian is easy (ex genders, plurals, cases, world order). Where German is easy, Bulgarian is daunting (especially verbs).
Some thoughts from you guys? Благодаря!
Bulgarian
- Tristano
- Blue Belt
- Posts: 640
- Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:11 am
- Location: The Netherlands
- Languages: Native: Italian
Speaks: English, Dutch, French, Spanish
Understands but not yet speaks: Romanian
Studies: German
Can't wait to put his hands on: Scandinavian languages, Slavic languages, Turkish, Arabic and other stuff - Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5141
- x 1015
Bulgarian
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- iguanamon
- Black Belt - 2nd Dan
- Posts: 2363
- Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:14 am
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- Languages: Speaks: English (Native); Spanish (C2); Portuguese (C2); Haitian Creole (C1); Ladino/Djudeo-espanyol (C1); Lesser Antilles French Creole (B2)
Studies: Catalan (B2) - Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=797
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Re: Bulgarian
I am one of your readers, Tristano. Looking forward to following your progress with Bulgarian! Good luck.
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- reineke
- Black Belt - 3rd Dan
- Posts: 3570
- Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:34 pm
- Languages: Fox (C4)
- Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6979
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Re: Bulgarian
You're a superstar here, Tristano. Bulgarian used to be classified on FSI charts together with German (ie 750 class hours).
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Re: Bulgarian
A quick search of the forum reveals that “Bulgarian” has been mentioned in 365 individual posts including the one’s above. A couple of years ago, I was tempted to begin studying this language and, in anticipation of doing so, began collecting a few sources of information and resources for learning it. While my project never went beyond the conceptual stage, I conserved the links. As there does not seem to be a “Bulgarian Resources” thread under this forum, this is a good place to start one …
Balto-Slavonic Profile - HTLAL
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26165&PN=0&TPN=3
Bulgarian and Russian - HTLAL
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18378&PN=30&get=last
Bulgarian adjectives - LLORG
https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2595
Assimil Le Bulgare / Sans Peine
http://fr.assimil.com/methodes?base_language=0&learn_language=46&level=
https://www.amazon.fr/Bulgare-sans-Peine-Livre/dp/2700502345/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1499907014&sr=8-2&keywords=le+bulgare
The reviews on Amazon.FR are quite positive.
Bulgarian Individualized Course, Elementary Bulgarian 1,2 (Ohio State University)
https://www.amazon.com/Bulgarian-Elementary-1-Student-Manual/dp/0874150132/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1534895769&sr=1-4&keywords=Elementary+Bulgarian
https://www.amazon.com/Bulgarian-Elementary-2-Student-Manual/dp/0874150167/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1534895812&sr=1-3&keywords=Elementary+Bulgarian&dpID=51WQ%252BShLDKL&preST=_SX218_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch
http://www.iu.edu/~celtie/bulgarian_archive.html
DLI Basic Bulgarian
https://fsi-languages.yojik.eu/languages/DLI/DLI-Bulgarian.html
FSI Basic Bulgarian
https://fsi-languages.yojik.eu/languages/FSI/fsi-bulgarian.html
Peace Corps Bulgarian
https://fsi-languages.yojik.eu/languages/PeaceCorps/Bulgarian.html
A Course in Modern Bulgarian - Hubernova, Dzhumadanova. Marinova
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0893573280/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0893573280&linkCode=as2&tag=slavicpubli0d-20&linkId=S2ZGHOCK4W5SQQ6S
https://slavica.indiana.edu/bookListings/textbooks/Modern_Bulgarian_1%262
Intensive Bulgarian - Ronelle Alexander
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Books/Intensive-Bulgarian-v-1-Textbook-Reference-Grammar/0299167445/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499872246&sr=8-1&keywords=Intensive+Bulgarian
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Intensive-Bulgarian-Audio-Supplement-Accompany/dp/0299250342/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1499871959&sr=8-11&keywords=cd+intensive+language
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Intensive-Bulgarian-v-Textbook-Reference/dp/0299167542/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1499872246&sr=8-4&keywords=Intensive+Bulgarian
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Intensive-Bulgarian-Audio-Supplement-Accompany/dp/029925044X/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1499871959&sr=8-10&keywords=cd+intensive+language
Learn Bulgarian The Easy Way - M. Zagorchev
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Learn-Bulgarian-complete-language-course/dp/9549351890/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499907720&sr=8-1&keywords=learn+bulgarian
Routledge Colloquial Bulgarian
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Colloquial+Bulgarian&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3AColloquial+Bulgarian
The audio files are now freely available on Routledge’s website.
Teach Yourself Bulgarian
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Teach+Yourself+Bulgarian&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3ATeach+Yourself+Bulgarian
Online Sources for Phrase-Book-Style Courses
Duolingo
Omniglot
101languages
MyLanguages
SurfaceLanguages
EasyBulgarian
Hmm, the mere act of listing the resources is provoking the feeling of wanderlust.
Good luck with your studies!
Balto-Slavonic Profile - HTLAL
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26165&PN=0&TPN=3
Bulgarian and Russian - HTLAL
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18378&PN=30&get=last
Bulgarian adjectives - LLORG
https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2595
Assimil Le Bulgare / Sans Peine
http://fr.assimil.com/methodes?base_language=0&learn_language=46&level=
https://www.amazon.fr/Bulgare-sans-Peine-Livre/dp/2700502345/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1499907014&sr=8-2&keywords=le+bulgare
The reviews on Amazon.FR are quite positive.
Bulgarian Individualized Course, Elementary Bulgarian 1,2 (Ohio State University)
https://www.amazon.com/Bulgarian-Elementary-1-Student-Manual/dp/0874150132/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1534895769&sr=1-4&keywords=Elementary+Bulgarian
https://www.amazon.com/Bulgarian-Elementary-2-Student-Manual/dp/0874150167/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1534895812&sr=1-3&keywords=Elementary+Bulgarian&dpID=51WQ%252BShLDKL&preST=_SX218_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch
http://www.iu.edu/~celtie/bulgarian_archive.html
DLI Basic Bulgarian
https://fsi-languages.yojik.eu/languages/DLI/DLI-Bulgarian.html
FSI Basic Bulgarian
https://fsi-languages.yojik.eu/languages/FSI/fsi-bulgarian.html
Peace Corps Bulgarian
https://fsi-languages.yojik.eu/languages/PeaceCorps/Bulgarian.html
A Course in Modern Bulgarian - Hubernova, Dzhumadanova. Marinova
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0893573280/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0893573280&linkCode=as2&tag=slavicpubli0d-20&linkId=S2ZGHOCK4W5SQQ6S
https://slavica.indiana.edu/bookListings/textbooks/Modern_Bulgarian_1%262
Intensive Bulgarian - Ronelle Alexander
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Books/Intensive-Bulgarian-v-1-Textbook-Reference-Grammar/0299167445/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499872246&sr=8-1&keywords=Intensive+Bulgarian
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Intensive-Bulgarian-Audio-Supplement-Accompany/dp/0299250342/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1499871959&sr=8-11&keywords=cd+intensive+language
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Intensive-Bulgarian-v-Textbook-Reference/dp/0299167542/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1499872246&sr=8-4&keywords=Intensive+Bulgarian
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Intensive-Bulgarian-Audio-Supplement-Accompany/dp/029925044X/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1499871959&sr=8-10&keywords=cd+intensive+language
Learn Bulgarian The Easy Way - M. Zagorchev
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Learn-Bulgarian-complete-language-course/dp/9549351890/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499907720&sr=8-1&keywords=learn+bulgarian
Routledge Colloquial Bulgarian
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Colloquial+Bulgarian&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3AColloquial+Bulgarian
The audio files are now freely available on Routledge’s website.
Teach Yourself Bulgarian
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Teach+Yourself+Bulgarian&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3ATeach+Yourself+Bulgarian
Online Sources for Phrase-Book-Style Courses
Duolingo
Omniglot
101languages
MyLanguages
SurfaceLanguages
EasyBulgarian
Hmm, the mere act of listing the resources is provoking the feeling of wanderlust.
Good luck with your studies!
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- Iversen
- Black Belt - 4th Dan
- Posts: 4782
- Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:36 pm
- Location: Denmark
- Languages: Monolingual travels in Danish, English, German, Dutch, Swedish, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Catalan, Italian, Romanian and (part time) Esperanto
Ahem, not yet: Norwegian, Afrikaans, Platt, Scots, Russian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Albanian, Greek, Latin, Irish, Indonesian and a few more... - Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1027
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Re: Bulgarian
For me Bulgarian comes in wawes - I had one wawe from around page 26 to page 41 in my log and another from page 67 to 85 - and after that: total silence. The main factor seems to be that I make a heap of printouts, and when I have studied the last of them them intensively there isn't much in my surroundings to call me back to Bulgarian. But thanks to Tristano I now have taken note of my current negligence in matters relating to this language (and the other Slavic languages too, for that matter ), and I intend to do something about it.
As for Tristano's observations they describe the language fairly well: the only real problem with the substantives is to remember the postclitic articles (and the Bulgarians use them everywhere!), whereas the verbs are somewhat more complicated because there is an aorist - and to this day I haven't understood the difference in meaning between the perfects and the aorist forms. In that respect even Greek is easier. I would however rate the Polish verbs as more difficult than the Bulgarian ones. And the vocabulary? Well, if you already know at least one Slavic language then you should have an easy time - if not, then prepare for some hard work.
As for Tristano's observations they describe the language fairly well: the only real problem with the substantives is to remember the postclitic articles (and the Bulgarians use them everywhere!), whereas the verbs are somewhat more complicated because there is an aorist - and to this day I haven't understood the difference in meaning between the perfects and the aorist forms. In that respect even Greek is easier. I would however rate the Polish verbs as more difficult than the Bulgarian ones. And the vocabulary? Well, if you already know at least one Slavic language then you should have an easy time - if not, then prepare for some hard work.
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- Saim
- Blue Belt
- Posts: 680
- Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:14 pm
- Location: Rheinland
- Languages: Native: English
Others: Catalan, Serbian, Spanish, Polish, Hungarian, Urdu, French etc.
Main focus: German - x 2334
Re: Bulgarian
I adore Bulgarian and can understand it quite well (depending on the register) due to the other Slavic languages I'm proficient in but I unfortunately haven't been able to justify putting concentrated effort into it.
Once I was on an intensive Hungarian summer course in Pécs and among the other students there was a girl from Bulgaria and another one from Croatia. One day I was walking around town with the two of them and we tried to communicate 'in Slavic'. At first the Bulgarian had serious trouble understanding the Croatian, but didn't have as much trouble with my Serbian. I noticed that the Croatian girl was using lots of infinitives, which don't exist in Bulgarian: I told her "hey, try and speak more like a Serb[1] and use da-constructions, Bulgarians and Macedonians don't have infinitives". I was really happy when I saw the Bulgarian immediately started understanding much more.
[1] In Croatia they use the infinitive in contexts that are less common (though usually not outright incorrect) in Serbia at least in colloquial speech. Serbian infinitive-avoidance is thus transitional between the more typically Slavic Croats (although depending on the region they may use some da-constructions, which as far as I know don't exist in Slovene at all) and the infinitiveless Bulgarians and Macedonians.
Tristano wrote:So yes, I feel the desire to talk about it. I would especially like to hear if someone of you had experience with it or with languages related to it, like Macedonian or more far away, Serbian-Croatian-Bosnian, and got to read some Bulgarian for fun or met some native speaker and tried communicating etc. These kind of things.
Once I was on an intensive Hungarian summer course in Pécs and among the other students there was a girl from Bulgaria and another one from Croatia. One day I was walking around town with the two of them and we tried to communicate 'in Slavic'. At first the Bulgarian had serious trouble understanding the Croatian, but didn't have as much trouble with my Serbian. I noticed that the Croatian girl was using lots of infinitives, which don't exist in Bulgarian: I told her "hey, try and speak more like a Serb[1] and use da-constructions, Bulgarians and Macedonians don't have infinitives". I was really happy when I saw the Bulgarian immediately started understanding much more.
[1] In Croatia they use the infinitive in contexts that are less common (though usually not outright incorrect) in Serbia at least in colloquial speech. Serbian infinitive-avoidance is thus transitional between the more typically Slavic Croats (although depending on the region they may use some da-constructions, which as far as I know don't exist in Slovene at all) and the infinitiveless Bulgarians and Macedonians.
Last edited by Saim on Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Denzagathist
- Yellow Belt
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Wed May 16, 2018 11:18 am
- Location: Germany
- Languages: .
• N: English
• C: German, French, Spanish, Croatian, Greek
• B: Italian, Portuguese, Russian, Swedish, Turkish, Japanese
• A: Persian, Mandarin
• Dormant: Dutch, Romanian, Polish - x 275
Re: Bulgarian
I used to study Bulgarian a few years ago, mostly in preparation for a short trip to Bulgaria. I was never terribly inspired by the language, and I dropped it after visiting the country and realizing that I could more or less get by fine using my Croatian. (But who knows, maybe one day I'll return to it!)
But as a speaker of another South Slavic language and a lover of Balkan languages I wish you best of luck! Успех!
As Saim noted, it's not too hard to make sense of Bulgarian if you know another South Slavic language, and I imagine the reverse would be true to some extent as well. I had full conversations in Bulgaria with people, in which I was using Croatian and they were responding in Bulgarian, and it didn't seem to pose that many issues. At first -- and especially for shorter exchanges, like ordering a coffee in a café -- I think people just thought I was speaking really bad Bulgarian.
But as a speaker of another South Slavic language and a lover of Balkan languages I wish you best of luck! Успех!
As Saim noted, it's not too hard to make sense of Bulgarian if you know another South Slavic language, and I imagine the reverse would be true to some extent as well. I had full conversations in Bulgaria with people, in which I was using Croatian and they were responding in Bulgarian, and it didn't seem to pose that many issues. At first -- and especially for shorter exchanges, like ordering a coffee in a café -- I think people just thought I was speaking really bad Bulgarian.
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-
- Blue Belt
- Posts: 884
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- Languages: Russian (N), English (C2), Japanese (~C1), German (~B2), Kazakh (~B1), Norwegian (~A2)
Studying: Kazakh, Mandarin, Coptic - Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1237
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- Contact:
Re: Bulgarian
Tristano wrote:There is the verb to be unlike other Slavic languages
A nitpick, but all Slavic languages have the verb "to be"; it's just that in the East Slavic languages its use in the present tense is much more limited, to the point where its present tense forms other than third person singular are obsolete.
Bulgarian and Russian have an unusual relationship in that, even though they're neither particularly close relatives nor close neighbours, there is a great deal of overlap in vocabulary due to Russian having been strongly influenced by (Old) Church Slavonic, which is almost the direct ancestor of modern Bulgarian (in fact OCS is usually just referred to as "Old Bulgarian" in Bulgarian). Aside from that, there's the shared use of Cyrillic, as well as the stress system in Bulgarian being more similar to the East Slavic languages than to any of the other (standard) South Slavic languages. The grammars are fairly different though, with Russian on the one hand retaining much of the old noun declension system (with the notable exception of the vocative case, which is the only non-nominative case to survive in Bulgarian) and Bulgarian on the other keeping the old verb conjugation system mostly intact (except for the infinitive and supine forms).
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- Tristano
- Blue Belt
- Posts: 640
- Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:11 am
- Location: The Netherlands
- Languages: Native: Italian
Speaks: English, Dutch, French, Spanish
Understands but not yet speaks: Romanian
Studies: German
Can't wait to put his hands on: Scandinavian languages, Slavic languages, Turkish, Arabic and other stuff - Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5141
- x 1015
Re: Bulgarian
iguanamon wrote:I am one of your readers, Tristano. Looking forward to following your progress with Bulgarian! Good luck.
reineke wrote:You're a superstar here, Tristano. Bulgarian used to be classified on FSI charts together with German (ie 750 class hours).
vonPeterhof wrote:Tristano wrote:There is the verb to be unlike other Slavic languages
A nitpick, but all Slavic languages have the verb "to be"; it's just that in the East Slavic languages its use in the present tense is much more limited, to the point where its present tense forms other than third person singular are obsolete.
Bulgarian and Russian have an unusual relationship in that, even though they're neither particularly close relatives nor close neighbours, there is a great deal of overlap in vocabulary due to Russian having been strongly influenced by (Old) Church Slavonic, which is almost the direct ancestor of modern Bulgarian (in fact OCS is usually just referred to as "Old Bulgarian" in Bulgarian). Aside from that, there's the shared use of Cyrillic, as well as the stress system in Bulgarian being more similar to the East Slavic languages than to any of the other (standard) South Slavic languages. The grammars are fairly different though, with Russian on the one hand retaining much of the old noun declension system (with the notable exception of the vocative case, which is the only non-nominative case to survive in Bulgarian) and Bulgarian on the other keeping the old verb conjugation system mostly intact (except for the infinitive and supine forms).
Thanks, thanks, thanks, and thanks
@Iversen,
honoured to have activated the Bulgarian bell
@Saim, @Denzagathist,
thank you for your stories As a European located in central Europe with easy access to basically the whole Europe, it is nice to realise that Bulgarian is a very fortunate strategic choice, as it
- open the roads to Cyrillic
- open the roads to Slavic languages. Macedonian is closely related, Croatian, Serbian, Bosnian and Montenegrin seem to have much vocabulary in common with it, Slovak holds south Slavic features and open to Czech and Polish, Bulgarian has also greatly influenced Russian and in minor part Romanian. It is also part of the Balkan Sprachbund, which makes the other Balkan languages somewhat more familiar.
- and in all is also one of the easiest Slavic languages, which means I can focus fully on my biggest goal - learning Slavic vocabulary.
- well it is also spoeken a beautiful country which has amazing food :Q____ __
As for my method, since I won't document this journey in my Dutch log so much:
1) learn pronunciation and alphabet. [DONE]
2) learn first 100 to 300 high frequency words [DONE]
3a) lessons with tutors [IN PROGRESS]
3b) skimming through grammar explanations [IN PROGRESS]
3c) intensive vocabulary learning through sentences on SRS [IN PROGRESS]
4) extensive reading [TO DO]
5) extensive listening [TO DO]
6) active use of the language if needed [TO DO]
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Re: Bulgarian
Would anyone happen to know if the two Bulgarian courses, by Carleton T. Hodge, are the same?
Bulgarian Basic Course (1961) by Carleton T. Hodge – FSI (Foreign Services Institute)
Materials: 2 course manuals, x?x audio cassettes. Available via Yojik website.
Spoken Bulgarian (1980 reprint?) by Carleton T. Hodge – SLS (Spoken Language Services)
Materials: 2 course manuals, 18 audio cassettes. Very rare and quite expensive.
Bulgarian Basic Course (1961) by Carleton T. Hodge – FSI (Foreign Services Institute)
Materials: 2 course manuals, x?x audio cassettes. Available via Yojik website.
Spoken Bulgarian (1980 reprint?) by Carleton T. Hodge – SLS (Spoken Language Services)
Materials: 2 course manuals, 18 audio cassettes. Very rare and quite expensive.
1 x
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