Translation: Friend or Foe?

[Valddu]

I’ve been thinking about the role of translation lately in terms of my language learning progress.

Earlier this year I read Fluent Forever and started using Anki with a strict NO TRANSLATION rule in place. Everything had to be in the target language. Gabriel Wyner’s logic made sense to me--translation and L1 just gets in the way of thinking in the L2 and should be cut out as an unnecessary middleman.

However, after a few months of making my Anki cards solely in my L2 , I’m now firmly in the camp that there’s nothing wrong with translation and using your L1. I actually consider them a huge help in allowing me to acquire my L2. This is based on my observation that translation from L1 to L2 and vice versa just goes away on its own naturally.

When I’m first learning a grammatical construct or phrase in my L2 and want to use it in a conversation I need to pause and think, lay it out in my L1, and then convert it into my L2. However, the more I develop my confidence with this new aspect of the language the less time I need to spend translating. Eventually, over time, I’ve noticed that I don’t need to refer to my L1 at all. I just automatically use and understand those concepts in the L2.

Numbers are a great example of this. Numbers between 1-100 I’ve heard so often that I don’t need to translate when hearing/using them in my L2. If you say 5 in my L2 I know what you mean instantly. However, if it’s a large number in the thousands I suddenly find myself trying to translate into my L1 and deconstruct what I’m hearing. If I want to use a random number in the millions I need to stop and translate it from my L1 to my L2 in my mind before attempting to say it. I don’t think this is bad, or something to avoid. It’s just a necessary step on my way towards mastering this feature of the language.

My current thinking is that translating from L1 to L2 in Anki (or through other exercises) is helpful. If I’m reading a parallel text and see a sentence in my L2 that’s just out of my comfort zone (as in, it would be really challenging to use it in a conversation) I create Anki cards that require me to translate the L1 version of the sentence to the L2 version. I use Anki more and more as a way of forcing myself to producing sentences that I would likely avoid constructing in an actual conversation. Sometimes when I read a parallel text I like to look at the L1 version of a sentence and then try to figure out how I would say it in my L2. The great thing is to be able to glance over and see what a professional translation looks like.

What is everyone else’s experience? Do you avoid translation whenever possible? Or do you find it to be a useful way to learn a language?

[trui]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the process, but I never understood translating from your L1 to your L2 in your head. So much so that when people make posts asking 'how do I stop translating?' I do a double take and remember 'Oh yeah. People actually do this.'

Now I'm not one of those people who think you need to learn all words at the start through pictures, no. When I started learning Dutch, I certainly looked up what various words in the word lists I studied meant in English, or if I knew a word in English and wanted to know it in Dutch, I looked it up. But when it came to actually using the language, I never translated, at least not consciously since I certainly don't remember doing it.

Maybe this came from me focusing on grammar very early on. I learned that "Ik ben" meant "I am". Once I knew that, I no longer consciously translated Ik ben. If I forgot what it meant, then I simply had to look it up again. I then learned some words so that I could say 'Ik ben een vrouw' or 'ik ben een appel.' (This was even before I tried duolingo once ). Of course Ik ben doesn't let you say a lot, so I learned the other pronouns along with them and their conjugations. Even with all the conjugations of zijn (to be), I couldn't say a lot, so I nearly immediately went and memorized the verbs for to have, to become, to go, to do, etc. Of course mastering them took much longer and I'm still not completely there yet for all of them.

Whenever I said (or in my case wrote, as most of my practice was through chatrooms) something, I often asked two questions. If I knew my sentence was technically correct but I wasn't sure if people said it like this, I asked 'is this natural?' If I had doubts about the technical correctness, I asked if it was correct and then, if it was correct or once I got the corrections, I asked if it was natural. Lots of these explicit rules that I learned, I've forgotten, but my writing remains influenced by them. My grammar use is probably still not completely natural/native like, but it's certainly a lot better than if I hadn't gone through that process.

What happens when I don't know a word/manner in which to say something? Well only then is when English pops into my mind. Actually, let me write a sentence to confirm... "Ik wil iets over appels zeggen, en over..." (I want to say something about apples, and about...) Aha. Here it is. My brain paused and then the English words 'cart/stall' came into my mind, since I didn't immediately recall the word for that in Dutch. Why the weird sentence? Because I realized that since I had no idea what I wanted to say, I had to ponder over that, and since I had been writing in English, that pondering was also in English. But when I explicitly started pondering in Dutch over what to say, then my brain successfully 'switched' to Dutch.

So in essence, no matter my level, the process has always been to say/think something in Dutch, get stuck due to lack of vocab or not enough mastery over grammar, look those things up or try and say things in another manner and thus avoid the issue, and then continue on. When I get stuck is when English pops into my head. I don't preemptively think of a sentence in English and then think about how I'd say it in Dutch, at least not that I can recall. Perhaps when I was just starting. I don't know. This process also serves as motivation for me. The more I learn, the less I get 'stuck'.

Now am I saying that translating in your head is bad when you're just starting to learn something? No, and I'm sure it'll happen as you describe for people. What works for you is best. But when I read all these questions about 'how do I stop translating in my head' then I'm like 'then just don't do it?', though I know old habits die hard. And don't get me started on people wondering how to stop translating every sentence they read.

[Kraut]

You should have a look at what they call "bidirectional translation" where you translate from the foreign language into your mother tongue, the latter only serves as a vehicle to link to the precise meaning. To memorize I then back-translate.


http://master-any-language.com/bidirect ... anslation/
http://janhyde.com/bidirectional-translation/

good tool:
https://www.deepl.com/translator

I always have the audio that goes with the text (podcasts etc).

I practise back-translation L1 - L2 for a short while. And then I do only drill learning by listening to the audio (divided in trunks, single sentences, passages ...)

[Ani]

I think I really slowed down my learning trying to go all-L2 too quickly. I think the process of translating in your head goes away in proportion to how well you've internalized the structures of the language and going L2-L2 too early costs you accuracy. It is good to work with monolingual resources as early as you can, but shunning your L1 isn't helpful.
The only thing I like to use images for are animals. I usually image search in google. That's mostly because I like looking at animals. I really don't know if it's more effective than just checking the English name.

[tastyonions]

Someone posted this article a while ago and I agree with it:

"We only learn language once. The role of the mother tongue in FL classrooms: death of a dogma": http://www.fremdsprachendidaktik.rwth-aachen.de/Ww/programmatisches/pachl.html

I don't look things up or learn translations religiously but it is often the quickest route to nailing down meaning. And L1 -> L2 will show you quickly where your weaknesses are.

[Valddu]

You should have a look at what they call "bidirectional translation" where you translate from the foreign language into your mother tongue, the latter only serves as a vehicle to link to the precise meaning. To memorize I then back-translate.


http://master-any-language.com/bidirect ... anslation/
http://janhyde.com/bidirectional-translation/

good tool:
https://www.deepl.com/translator

I always have the audio that goes with the text (podcasts etc).


I practise back-translation L1 - L2 for a short while. And then I do only drill learning by listening to the audio (divided in trunks, single sentences, passages ...)

Wow, this is a fantastic resource. Thank you.

[leosmith]

What is everyone else’s experience? Do you avoid translation whenever possible? Or do you find it to be a useful way to learn a language?

I agree with trui. There's nothing wrong with translation per se, but consciously constructing L2 from L1, or vice versa, while conversing isn't a good thing. I actually did this for a while when I learned Swahili back in 1999, it drove me nuts, and lengthened the learning process. These days I let things develop naturally, with minimal resistance or fiddling with things as I form them, and I don't think I even use language. It feels more like I'm putting a bunch of uniquely shaped puzzle pieces together in my brain. But I'm funny that way.

[garyb]

Common sense wins over dogma! Of course translation is useful when done sensibly. I too have found that the "problem" of translating in my head when speaking or listening is just something that solves itself over time as I improve at the language. It seems to just be a symptom of a low level, lack of practice, or reaching the limit of your current ability. Even at B1 or so I'm mostly thinking in the language until I get stuck and have to put more thought into how to say something.

[Elexi]

Modern SLA research stresses the importance of focus on form to raise the learner's consciousness of the L2 language - and there is a growing body of research that shows that translation remains an effective way of inculcating L2 form in a learner. Self-taught types like ourselves already know this because we use form focused translation methods like Pimsleur, Michel Thomas, not to mention older AL drill methods.

However, if translation is no longer seen as a bad guy, it has to be mixed with non-translation methods - i.e. L2 communication practice, extensive reading and L2 grammar/form practice - I think Orberg's Lingua Latina Per Se Illustra is the tried and tested method that shows that - lots of reading without translation and drills that inculcate form without the use of L1.

[zenmonkey]

What seats an idea better in your memory?

At the start, if you aren't translating, I don't know how you are learning a language.
Personally, when reading in (B2) German I still read L1 definitions when I can't easily get the meaning in L2.

If getting a definition is generating any frustration, use translation.
On the other hand trying to use literal translation negatively impact learning.

It really depends on the tool and moments you use, I don't think there is a simple answer to the question.

Worth reading, just posted by Gareth: https://howtogetfluent.com/translation- ... ng-method/