Studying after loss of motivation

[eido]

I originally started this thread seeking advice for how to reverse my apathy toward the language, or, alternatively, how to continue studying successfully in spite of it. But I think the responses I've received are more valuable and certainly more realistic. Namely, that it's okay to take a break (or even stop altogether) if it doesn't inspire anything in me anymore, and that I can always revisit it in the future if my motivation should return.

Well, I right the thread, pretty much all the posts. But I was thinking of your log where you'd mentioned continuing to study, and you seemed to keep doing so without motivation. I guess I got overwhelmed with information and forgot about your idea of being obligated to learning it. I remember it now. I get it, I get it. Sorry if I seemed to bust in all rude - that wasn't my intent.

[leosmith]

For example the student exchanges, but you mostly make friends with other foreigners there.

Are you talking about language exchanges? They are great in Japan, at least the ones I went to. Typically 5 or more to 1, Japanese to foreigners. I had similar experiences in Korea and Ukraine to. I found it really easy to make friends with locals there. Maybe things are different in certain European countries?

To the OP - I'm getting a certain vibe from your posts. Do you feel like you've got several balls in the air, and if you take a short break they'll all come crashing down and you'll lose everything? So even though you have no motivation, you fear that if you do this trial separation it will be just about impossible to pick up the pieces again? If so, I think you still have a lot of motivation tucked away. Like others, I recommend making a great effort to completely quit for a week. Especially SRS. In fact, I recommend deleting all your Japanese cards/decks or whatever. You might only make it for a few days, but give it a good effort. At that point, maybe you'll be totally happy and drop the language completely. But I think it's more likely your motivation will grab you by the collar and pull you through to your goal. Either option is fine, because you'll probably be happier. I hope that if you continue, you'll try some new stuff; it's sometimes hard for experienced language learners to do this. Good luck!

[Denzagathist]

But I was thinking of your log where you'd mentioned continuing to study, and you seemed to keep doing so without motivation. I guess I got overwhelmed with information and forgot about your idea of being obligated to learning it. I remember it now. I get it, I get it. Sorry if I seemed to bust in all rude - that wasn't my intent.

No worries, I can see how that might have been confusing! I decided to continue studying until I leave Japan (in two weeks ), and then to put my active studies on hold indefinitely after that.

Do you feel like you've got several balls in the air, and if you take a short break they'll all come crashing down and you'll lose everything? So even though you have no motivation, you fear that if you do this trial separation it will be just about impossible to pick up the pieces again? If so, I think you still have a lot of motivation tucked away. Like others, I recommend making a great effort to completely quit for a week. Especially SRS. In fact, I recommend deleting all your Japanese cards/decks or whatever.

If I've understood your analogy correctly, then yes. I do feel like the only thing keeping me going at this point is momentum (and fun cocktail of shame and guilt). I feel like if I stop completely, there is a good chance that I will never start up again and will lose everything I've worked toward. If nothing else, I want to maintain the level I've attained. I don't want to start from zero a third time if I do decide to revisit Japanese seriously in the future. For that reason, the thought of getting rid of my SRS deck makes me panic, since that is largely how I maintain my level, and because I've spent the past few months just trying to catch up on the thousands of reviews that had piled up from the last time I took a break from it. I think it will become much more manageable once I stop adding new cards.

Honestly, this position I've worked myself into where I don't want to continue but don't necessarily want to quit, either, has been making me crazy, and I think this thread is definitely a reflection of that. Thanks to everyone for trying to help me through my madness.

[Cavesa]

For example the student exchanges, but you mostly make friends with other foreigners there.

Are you talking about language exchanges? They are great in Japan, at least the ones I went to. Typically 5 or more to 1, Japanese to foreigners. I had similar experiences in Korea and Ukraine to. I found it really easy to make friends with locals there. Maybe things are different in certain European countries?

No. I am talking about programs like Erasmus (but there are many more such programs, some are extraeuropean, some are just for a certain type of schools, or there are just bilateral agreements between individual universities).

Everyone blabbers like "I am going there to improve the language and make friends with the natives" and then they just stupidly stick together, party together, go on weekend trips together, and they use the damned English (with the exception of Italian and Spanish groups, those tend to be big enough to stay in their native language, hard to tell whether it is better or worse) or, in the better case, they "speak" the local language at a bad level together, so the worst speaker basically becomes the norm dragging everyone down.

It is not easy to become part of the local community, that is one of the reasons why so many foreigners give up. The people are there their whole lives, have little free time, and have been forming friendships they find meaningful in the long run. You are there just for a few months, it is not easy to become part of that.

Despite that, these exchanges and similar opportunities are still the best opportunity to be in normal contact with the locals. It requires a lot of swimming against the current, it requires giving up some of the easier fun stuff (with the other foreigners), and you need to struggle every day to perform just as well as the locals, to not be a burden.

I am not talking about language exchange meet ups. And even those are a rather specific situation, not normal full value contact in the natural environment. Noone there is interested in the other person for normal reasons, it is just beneficial to get free language practice.

[Axon]

Everyone blabbers like "I am going there to improve the language and make friends with the natives" and then they just stupidly stick together, party together, go on weekend trips together, and they use the damned English ...

Ah, Cavesa, how wonderfully said and terribly true.

At least in my experience in Indonesia, I had plenty of opportunities to use the damned Mandarin instead... but it's still the same problem!

It really is so easy to imagine that you'll constantly hang out with the locals. I feel like only people who have experience with exchange programs realize how difficult it is to even limit your own consumption of native-language content when you're on your own - let alone limit your own social interactions!

As for the main point of the thread, I second the point about focusing on what you are able to do. Perhaps you're able to automatically order in a restaurant without even thinking in English. Perhaps you're able to glance at a shelf of books and quickly find the one you want. To someone like me who doesn't know the littlest bit of Japanese, that's amazing.

If you're keeping up your level with mainly SRS, that sounds like the perfect way to lose motivation. You've also likely internalized an enormous amount already that will probably never fade, at least not passively. Scroll through some Japanese clickbait website or YouTube for the same amount of time and free yourself from the immense burden of "needing to keep up your level" by watching a flashcard number go down every day.

[leosmith]

It is not easy to become part of the local community

But it's been really easy for me to get very good language practice with local acquaintances. Granted, I have to put myself out there, but even small efforts on my part are rewarded.

If you're keeping up your level with mainly SRS, that sounds like the perfect way to lose motivation.

Exactly. Deleting all the SRS cards would sort out his situation imo. It would be ok to start it up again after a rest, but in a limited roll; in support of his studies, rather than running them.

[lichtrausch]

I know you said you weren't very interested in Japanese culture, but I recommend giving Terrace House on Netflix a try. I'm not a big fan of TV in general, but I find it a pleasurable way to maintain my Japanese and learn some new things. It's not a typical Japanese show.

[Denzagathist]

Everyone blabbers like "I am going there to improve the language and make friends with the natives" and then they just stupidly stick together, party together, go on weekend trips together, and they use the damned English

This is absolutely true. I credit my level in Croatian, in large part, to having been placed alone in a small town, several hours by bus away from any of the other exchange students. Whereas the large group in Zagreb mostly just socialized amongst themselves, I had no choice but to interact and make friends with local people. My English use was more or less limited to my English class at school, Skype chats with my friends and family at home, and once or twice a month when I would see the other exchange students.

As for the main point of the thread, I second the point about focusing on what you are able to do. Perhaps you're able to automatically order in a restaurant without even thinking in English. Perhaps you're able to glance at a shelf of books and quickly find the one you want. To someone like me who doesn't know the littlest bit of Japanese, that's amazing.

You're right. Some of my frustration is likely due, in part, to undervaluing my current level and/or focusing too much on the things that I still can't do. Most of my exposure to the language has been the extremely formal language of my workplace, on subjects that I know (and care) little about, which is probably not the best gauge of my abilities. Lawyer&Mom said something similar about how her German never felt sufficient while living in Germany, but after leaving she felt more satisfied with the level she had reached. I would not be surprised if something similar happens for me after leaving Japan.

I know you said you weren't very interested in Japanese culture, but I recommend giving Terrace House on Netflix a try. I'm not a big fan of TV in general, but I find it a pleasurable way to maintain my Japanese and learn some new things. It's not a typical Japanese show.

Actually, I used to watch Terrace House and was pretty into it last year. It's the only Japanese show I've ever seen that hasn't made me want to throw something at the TV/computer screen. I'm not sure why I stopped watching, but I'll definitely give it a try again. Thank you for the suggestion/reminder!

[Cavesa]

I think it is always possible to find something awesome in a language/culture that doesn't have just a few million bilingual speakers nor is dying out.

You may have not looked in many directions (perhaps for lack of free time, I don't know) and if you want to rekindle your interest in Japanese, that is what you should do. I find it very sad, that the japanese culture is being presented only as anime or only as the history and origami. There is an ocean of stuff you might be interested in. After all, most people wouldn't say fantasy books are a good reason to learn a language, or historical tv series, or opera. Yet, these are things I love in my languages and that keep me going. Other such reasons could be learning the language of the best athletes and instructors in a sport someone loves, or the best gardening publications about roses being published in the language. If you want some new love for Japanese, you should find your niche.

[SM11]

Hi Denzagathist,

Well, for sure motivation is the key to learn a language.

Whenever you start a project, you need to have a strong "Why ?" answer that you can always get back to during struggle times.

You know, I'm also a big fan of Japan, and I'm seriously considering to learn it after I get a good level in Chinese mandarin which I'm currently studying.

I think you really should focus on the points that made you love Japan and its culture at the very beginning. I don't know what they are for you, but I personally love their mangas If you like them as well, you can focus on that for example. Try to reach that point where you wouldn't even need subtitles to understand the animes, or you could read the scans in Japanese directly.

Maybe you like Japan's history, then you could try to find documentaries about Japan (in Japanese), or study something related to history or civilization.

Maybe you like Japan's gastronomy, technology, music, sceneries...

But here's my best advice: if you're in love with Japan and its culture, go get a Japanese wife dude (or girlfriend if you prefer). Seriously, you won't find a better motivation to learn Japanese than that. It doesn't have to be a native Japanese, you live in the US right? I'm sure it's full of Japanese girls there, and that would be enough to motivate you (to get to know her family in Japan especially). Anyway, I'm not gonna give advices about finding a Japanese girlfriend 'cause it's not really the topic of this forum haha ^^ But yeah consider this, it's probably the most effective reason to keep you motivated your whole life

All the best with your learning, you can do it !