Anki/SRS unbelievers

[reineke]

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[Iversen]

I have never used Anki or flash-cards, mostly because I see them primarily as test tools which offer morcels of information if you don't remember a test item and reinforces your memories by forcing you to try to recall things you ought to know. OK, they probably work (and even the great Mezzofanti used flashcards since Anki hadn't been invented yet), but I still don't feel tempted. I want to be in control over the words I shuffle into my brain, and there my wordlists have an advantage.

[jstan]

Interesting post and an area of curiosity for me. When I was a student, I found flashcards to be an immensely useful way to memorize mountains of information. So, when I started studying French, SRS apps seemed like an obvious tool to include in my studies. With that, I've done a fair amount of SRS study in the 10 or 11 months that I've been studying French. However, lately I've been wondering if that time has been well spent and question how much I'm actually able to use to words I've learned that way. I think that there's a enormous difference between being able to recall an equation, date, name, etc. during an exam, and being able to actually use and recognize a word to accurately convey meaning in a conversation. My suspicion is that SRS can help you store a word in memory, but that repeated in-context exposure in necessary to actually make that word usable vocabulary. That said, I'm fairly new to language study and am really curious to hear what the more experienced learners here think.

[reineke]

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[Saim]

[...]

This guy's entire internet persona is based on him being a massive misogynist and rape advocate. I'd suggest not linking to him.

[devilyoudont]

I think there is a problem in the language learning community, where proponents of a tool present it as the single most efficient way to learn a language, and fail to acknowledge any drawbacks of the tool, differences between learners, or most especially potential to cause burnout. Learners see the success of that proponent, become very inspired, throw themselves into something, and may see early gains... Then, if they actually follow what that proponent said to it's logical conclusions, they might see a dark side.

I'm sure that many people would insist that these people used SRS incorrectly, but it's not hard to find people advocating use of SRS as described in those articles. I can't really blame anyone who attempted to do endless reviews and now dislikes the program as a result.

All of that said, flashcards have been a useful to for me on my journey, but my use of them would probably be considered non-ideal by proponents. For most languages I study, I have largely automated the process of making cards, and I just do reviews when I have "dead time" like waiting in line at the grocery store, waiting for a meeting to start, etc. It's a good time filler for those moments when you have an uncertain amount of time, but don't feel like playing a game on your phone. I rarely ever "complete" anki on a given day because, wow, boring.

[reineke]

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This guy's entire internet persona is based on him being a massive misogynist and rape advocate. I'd suggest not linking to him.

But he's got such a big, bushy beard! I agree with a few of his comments about language learning. The rape comment can be interpreted as libel. I don't care to see the "proof" but such matters are best resolved through other means. Anyway, removed, and you're the one with a link in your post.

[Dylan95]

Interesting post and an area of curiosity for me. When I was a student, I found flashcards to be an immensely useful way to memorize mountains of information. So, when I started studying French, SRS apps seemed like an obvious tool to include in my studies. With that, I've done a fair amount of SRS study in the 10 or 11 months that I've been studying French. However, lately I've been wondering if that time has been well spent and question how much I'm actually able to use to words I've learned that way. I think that there's a enormous difference between being able to recall an equation, date, name, etc. during an exam, and being able to actually use and recognize a word to accurately convey meaning in a conversation. My suspicion is that SRS can help you store a word in memory, but that repeated in-context exposure in necessary to actually make that word usable vocabulary. That said, I'm fairly new to language study and am really curious to hear what the more experienced learners here think.

I agree 100% that context is absolutely necessary when learning vocabulary, but I don't think that SRS necessarily means that context will be absent. It depends on the types of cards you make. For example, when I make Anki flashcards, I usually put the English on the front. On the back I put the L2 word that I wish to learn, followed by at least one, but often multiple examples, to show how the word functions in a sentence. I also find most of my words via reading, and the example sentences come from sentences I came across, so having knowledge of where these excerpts come from, the context is already there.
In the past I mined most of my vocabulary for ANKI decks through word lists and that kind of thing. That really didn't work because often times I didn't really understand how they were used in sentences, and I missed out on crucial nuances.

I'm not a very experienced language learner, so take anything I say with a grain of salt, but I think it seems logical, and this works very well for me.

[aokoye]

Like nearly everything in life, one size does not fit all. There are, quite clearly, a large number of people who have learned foreign languages (among other things - Anki seems to be very popular among some med students) without the use of SRS. There are also people who find it essential. The "unbelievers" part of the title sounds dogmatic to me but even if it isn't (I suspect that wasn't the intent), I don't really see why people are continuously trying to get people to use or not use SRS opposed to accepting that not everyone finds it useful/some people find it useful. There is no "one true way" as it seems some people on the internet (and likely elsewhere) would like to purport.

This is similar to the discussions surrounding, "needing" to live in a country to that speaks X language in order to "become fluent" in that language. There are plenty of people who find that necessary and there are people who don't.

[reineke]

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