Expanding out and learning other varieties of the same language

[Systematiker]

Just to further complicate things, there's also the outside perception of facility in the language. I'll use Spanish, since that's my point of reference: There is, of course, the stereotypical "but you speak Spanish, right?" from people who don't know about pluricentralism when you run into someone or something you can't quite follow, but this extends to employers and even professional language instruction and research. I recently took an examination in Spanish, and in the listening portion I can recall at least six variants of Latin American Spanish and three variants of Peninsular Spanish - without any sort of heads-up prior that this breadth of listening ability would be tested.

I think it's of value to note that whether a native speaker of any particular region can do a decent job of understanding those from other regions is an open question, and that among those who assume that even pluricentric languages de facto have speakers who understand the entire continuum this breadth of ability is directly connected to being a speaker of that language, even as an L2.

[Cavesa]

Yes, it is an issue. And this gets even more complicated with languages like Arabic and Chinese. The variants are called dialects but are more like separate, more or less related languages. And the general public doesn't know that. Therefore it is hypereasy for a learner, who has invested a lot and learnt one of such hard languages to a decend level, to be mistaken for a fraud because they cannot understand someone talking as differently from their learnt variant as if we expected a Catalan native to understand Romanian completely.

I think Spanish is going to be even more interesting in the years to come. In Spain, there is a growing demand for support to the non-Castilian languages in the country. An example: There are regions that have recently made it obligatory for the healthcare staff to be bilingual (which is a bit complicated, as the requirements for people in healthcare are already high and the work conditions often not that great. And a student preparing for such a job cannot choose a region of practice freely, it depends on their score in a huge exam, so they have little reason to start learning Catalan early enough to reach the required level by the time they start working). And it is not just Catalan, the lovers of Asturiano, Gallego, and others are being heard. So, the lovers of the smaller iberic languages and many of the natives are going to get more support and content.

So, it might soon turn into the decision: should I focus on and expose myself more to the various variants of Spanish, or to the various small related romance languages?

[nooj]

But feel free to recommend any other good Aussie/Kiwi stuff for us.

There is some cracker Kiwi movies, especially if you are interested in Maori matters: Boy (comedy-drama, beautiful!) and Whale Rider. You'll get exposed to NZ English, Maori English and Maori through those movies.

An Australian series I liked is Puberty Blues. For movies, there are the classic things like Strictly Ballroom, The Castle and Muriel's Wedding. I have a feeling that every Australian has watched them. Two Hands is also quite good.

There's also heaps of programs I grew up watching as a child and teenager, like Round the Twist.

I certainly don't expect you to be interested in these programs as an adult, but I mention it because it is fascinating to see how much what we used to watch as children orient out adult lives. Spaniards my age or older often talk about cartoons (dubbed from the original Japanese) that I never used to watch because they weren't transmitted here, and I was frustrated at missing out on the cultural references that came so natural to them. That gave me the desire to imitate their childhood by watching what they watched, even though of course as an adult, the experience is difference. Notably things like Doraemon or Shin-Chan. I should add that these people watched these programs dubbed into Basque, Galician, Catalan or Spanish. A Spaniard once half-jokingly said that these programs taught him and the kids of his neighbourhood Catalan by simple exposure. I think he was from Zaragoza, but for some reason the Catalan dub was transmitted in his city.

[Iversen]

In my opinion the main problem concerning native speakers is their attitude to other variants than their own, and more precisely the attitude of those who speak the dominant variant of an area. If you really like to hear other variants then you can normally find opportunities to do so, but these opportunitites dwindle to a trickle if there isn't enough demand. And then we end up with situations where the media systematically ignore variants that aren't popular among the user segments which might leave the medium in question.

For instance I would venture the guess that dialect speakers among Danish TV viewers are far more numerous than their representation in Danish TV productions would suggest - even including quizzes where two teams bombard each other with supposedly incomprehensible words and expressions (which gives the false impression that dialects are impossible to understand for outsiders). But precisely the cookie-munching elderly and meak dialect speakers among the viewers are also the ones who are most likely to stay no matter how much the TV people spit them in the face. Instead the stations try at all cost to appeal to the kind of young city dwellers who already are abandoning standard oldfashioned TV in droves in favour of Anglophone stuff like Netflix.

Apart from that: I personally don't feel that I have much of a problem with travelling in areas where people speak local variants of my target languages. For instance I have listened to some fairly hardcore speakers of Canadian French and Scots and Sicilians and Sardinians and Swiss Germans, and I survived.

[nooj]

Question about Sicily. How much Sicilian did you hear there (as opposed to Sicilian Italian)? Always keen to hear a first hand report...

[Iversen]

I have visited Sicily briefly on several interrail tours, but that's long ago. I do however remember a night spent in a night train with a Sicilian shark fisher who slept in the luggage net above the seats (!), and he most certainly spoke hardcore Sicilian. In 1980 I spent a week in Eastern Sicily (with a hotel room in Taormina and day trips by local bus to Palermo and Siracusa), but I simply don't remember what kind of Italian people spoke to me back then - except that it was during my study years where my Italian was reasonably healthy, and I would have remembered it if I had had problems understanding the local people.

My most recent visit was a one week trip to Western Sicily in 2012, where I had booked a flat in Trapani. And since it was one of my 'monolingual' trips I only communicated with people in Italian. I'm fairly sure that nobody spoke hardcore Sicilian to me personally during that trip, although some had a 'Southern' tinge to their speech. For instance I walked from Palermo to Monreale and spoke to several persons along the way - far away from the normal tourist areas, and still people spoke Italian to me. I did however notice a group who spoke a local dialect in the cathedral in Monreale, and there may have been others there- I can't remember everything I hear. I also heard a wife guide her husband in a car through the narrow streets of Erice, and her commands didn't sound anything like my 'school Italian'. The overwhelming majority of the speech I heard was however in Italian, NOT in Sicilian.

Let me add that I also visited Olbia on Sardinia plus Rome in 2011, and I was disappointed that I didn't hear any real Sardinian there - not even in the streets. I have later listened to some videos on the internet, and they didn't scare me, but I didn't hear anything like those videos while I visited the island - and I find that scary! As for Rome: yes, here I definitely heard people speak their local version of Italian. For instance I visited the Zoo ('Bioparco'), and zoos are notoriously good places for eavesdropping on dialect speakers.

[Adrianslont]

Hi aabram, I’m Australian and I have a couple of questions: which Australian and Kiwi shows are you watching? How did it come about that you are using Australian media (it’s not on most people’s radar, I think, unless they live in the UK).

Me and my wife been watching Australian MasterChef for years now, currently following Season 10. It's truly like a marathon show, every year we're eagerly waiting for the season to start. At first we had trouble understanding Australian English, but now we just cant get enough of it, with all the expressions and all. "Like a headless chook" is our favourite, thanks to Maggie Beer. Also A Place to Call Home, Miss Fisher's and I'm sure few others I can't recall now. As for New Zealand, we occasionally find a way to watch MasterChef NZ and MKR NZ as well. Their pronunciation is adorable as well, especially when they score "sex out of tin" or "siven". Cute as hell.

Over the years Estonian and Finnish tv stations which I also used to watch have aired quite a few Australian dramas, mainly cheesy ones but there have been some better ones too like Return to Eden in 80s (that crocodile incident terrified me as a child so I stopped watching it at some point), Bergerac in 90's, House Husbands few years ago etc. But feel free to recommend any other good Aussie/Kiwi stuff for us.

Hi again aabram. I hesitated to answer your request for recommendations for two reasons; the first being that it seemed to be straying from the topic. However, as the OP has answered your request, I will go ahead.

My second reason is that I have unusual viewing habits - I watch very little tv except for rugby and french and Indonesian shows on YouTube. That said, I will confirm nooj’s recommendations - I’ve seen most of those things and like them. Strictly Ballroom (movie) is a real favourite. I will add a recent Kiwi movie, Hunt for the Wilderpeople.

Also, I’ll add the Kiwi TV comedy Flight of the Conchords - more low key offbeat comedy.

I see you like the cooking competition shows - I have only watched one season of Master Chef - the first? The runner up was Poh and she has a show of her own - Poh’s kitchen. Also, another celebrity chef is Luke Nguyen - I haven’t watched much but I like him. Also related to cooking is the Katering Show. This is parody of cooking shows and other things - you may find it totally unfunny but at times it is very funny - warning, coarse language.

I’m struggling to be contemporary but I really liked a series from 20 years ago called Sea Change. In a way it’s like an adult version of Around the Twist, that nooj mentioned.

I’m still wondering, how do you access this stuff? Cable tv? Netflix? VPN and Australian catch up apps? The ABC and SBS have very good apps that have lots of content if you are unaware of them. They are probably geoblocked, though. If you have a VPN, those apps would be a good way to sample contemporary shows of many kinds.

[reineke]

Re: Dead white males and modern literature

Women better represented in Victorian novels than modern, finds study

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/ ... inds-study