Paying for Classes

[dedalus66]

I'm learning Greek, and for around 200 AUD (around 130 euro), I can pay for 10 lessons. I'd do it mainly for the ability to practice speaking amongst other people of similar ability as well as interacting with a native speaker.

To be honest I haven't been in a language classroom for a while so I am not sure what to expect. What have been your experiences with classes? I feel like it might be a good way to break plateaus. What are your thoughts?

[Cavesa]

My experience with classes has been mostly bad and mostly plateauish (there are many teachers who can make even the A1-A2 path take years). The other learners tend to be more of an obstacle than help, the native speaker-teacher doesn't speak that much (you get much more of native speach from a normal tv series), the curriculum and pace usually do not suit me (do they generally suit to anyone at all?), the feedback isn't detailled enough, not enough homework (if any), not enough opportunity to trully internalize the material but as well lack of advice on doing so on your own.

You mentioned you haven't been in class for a long time. I'd say the amount of changes depends on how long have you been outside the classroom. Officialy, everyone goes for the "modern, fun, communicative" approaches. In reality, that means bad teachers do not explain grammar (and their students tend to fail miserably at most skills), the good ones supplement the coursebooks with grammar. Instead of playing casettes in class, teachers use CDs but still not that much. The teachers still tend to be incapable of advicing students on how to learn (for example how to learn vocabulary. sometimes you are not even sure what vocabulary to learn, given the coursebook layout), on using native media, on using the internet.

However, the class may work under some conditions:
-the number of students. five can still be ok, fifteen are not.
-dedication and level of motivation of the students. This tends to be a huge problem, most people expect the class and teacher to teach them, they are not ready to actively learn. Those two aspects are, from my experience, much more important than the level of actual skills because dedicated students learn fast (either they grasp it fast or they spend the time on it at home) and use what they learn. Lazy people, no matter their level, are usually pain to work with during the horrible group/pair tasks.
-quality of the teacher, which is hard to tell before you pay. Most teachers are bad or at most mediocre, that's the simple truth. Some language schools let you switch classes and teachers in case of serious discontent, most don't.
-quality of the coursebook, which is something you can verify beforehand
-curriculum, whether it agrees with you own goals. Again, something you can find out in time.
-you might need to resist really firmly to giving up your individual work. Going to class and doing just fine there without any outside work, that is such a temptation to not push yourself! Resist, go on!

So, I hope I didn't sound too pessimist It still can work for you, I hope it will and wish you success and good time. Just don't forget to stick to your usual methods as well, no matter what happens in class.

[Stelle]

If I were you, I'd use the money to purchase online lessons through a site like italki. You'll get personalized instruction, you'll spend 100% of the time interacting with a native speaker, you'll probably get more hours for the same money, you can choose the schedule that best works for you, and you won't even have to leave your house!

[tastyonions]

I agree with what Stelle said. For guidance on activating your knowledge of a language, private tutoring is the way to go.

In my experience, in classes a lot of the instruction time is spent introducing new material, which is a terrible use of time. I believe new concepts and vocabulary are best assimilated at one's leisure, without pressure, not in an environment where you are expected to put your shaky new knowledge into practice immediately in front of a dozen other people. I guess that for those few who feel especially driven to perform when they have an audience, this dynamic may work well, but for me it is stressful and possibly even demotivating.

For me the way to go is a process of independent assimilation followed by refinement. I learn new words and concepts on my own, then talk to a tutor to clear up any doubts and correct any mistaken ideas I have accumulated about the language.

[emk]

If I were you, I'd use the money to purchase online lessons through a site like italki. You'll get personalized instruction, you'll spend 100% of the time interacting with a native speaker, you'll probably get more hours for the same money, you can choose the schedule that best works for you, and you won't even have to leave your house!

I agree that iTalki and other online tutoring services can provide great one-on-one attention, sometimes from amazing tutors, and that they may cost less than some mediocre group classes. Prices typically range from US$5 to $30+/hour, with the most expensive being tutors who specialize in advanced business French and things like that. Prices also vary considerably by language. But you definitely get a lot of conversation time with a native speaker for the money.

There are also also excellent intensive classes that typically produce substantial gains in a period of months. Good examples include FSI (if you work for the US State Department) and Middlebury Language Schools, which will expel you for speaking English (well, beginners get a week before they take the plunge). And I've heard of some Alliance Française chapters in France that run intensive courses combined with family homestays. Unfortunately, these intensive classes are all really expensive—US$7,000 and up is normal. I've conversed with people who've done some of these programs, and they were all pretty happy.

I'm not convinced, however, that the typical language class in the US is a good buy. There are, of course, some amazing teachers, and some people thrive in classrooms. But often there just aren't enough seriously determined students to allow the teacher to move along at a rapid pace.

[garyb]

I'd also recommend finding a tutor on a site like for your situation. You seem to know what you're looking for - speaking practice and interaction with a native speaker - and you'd get more of that from a tutor than a class. I can see the appeal of practising with people with a similar ability, but I've found that once the novelty of meeting other learners wears off it's not very beneficial since you just hear each others' mistakes and pronunciation.

[rdearman]

Have you considered booking lessons in Greece? I looking into doing a similar thing it Italy to learn Italian. They have small classes of less than 10 people for 6 hours per day for between 2 and 6 weeks. You stay at the school and of course you are in the country, so immersion is good too. I don't know the going rates, but if you have the time, it might be worth the investment.

[sctroyenne]

I've had good and not so good experience with classes. The last one I took at the Alliance Française (the "expert" course) was good. Most of the other students weren't quite at my level but the teacher was good about finding material and assigning work that everyone could get something out of. Quite a bit was review for me but a lot of it was stuff I knew passively/intellectually rather than actively so it was good review. She also assigned writing and graded/collected it every week. She didn't shame anyone for not turning anything in but the default was to over-assign so the course could be intensive if we wanted it to be.

On the other hand I've gotten classes where the top level students who had been there for years and years just all hang out in the advanced classes and used it as an expensive social hour. They already all knew each other so it was hard for a newbie to get a word in edgewise and there was little to no instruction going on. Or you get some hard-headed person who wants to argue minor points and will never shut up (just like on the internet ) and the teacher isn't able to stand up to them.

The best bet is to check the cancellation/refund policies if you go and decide it's not for you.

[Cavesa]

I was once in such an "intensive classes" stay in Germany for two weeks, staying in a family. The school was good as far as schools go but the problems of the classes were still the same. The students were even learning each other's mistakes, that's for the speaking with others on the same levels. And other languages were used outside the class all the time, people were gathering based on their nationalities/native languages mostly.

Really, the fact the classes are in the country means nothing, unless there is a strict policy on using just the language, which I find to be a genius idea. Otherwise, the classes are still classes.

[dedalus66]

Thanks for all the replies! Taking classes where your target language is spoken would be ideal, but alas, time & money are the biggest hurdles. I suppose that all classes differ, and can be greatly influenced by the quality of instruction and the level of interest shown by the students, as Cavesa has said. I had never heard of italki before, but that may also be an option. If I end up paying for the course, I'll have to do a bit more research but for the moment, I'll see.