English, would love to learn Russian. Any advice?

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bertheloti
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English, would love to learn Russian. Any advice?

Postby bertheloti » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:14 am

Hello all :)
I'm a native English speaker, from the UK. For as long as I can remember, I have wanted to know how to both speak/write Russian. It's such a beautiful language to me.
I've taken the time to become more familiar with the alphabet, but I'm not sure where to start, what resources to use, etc. Should I learn the scripture first, or start with the verbal/conversational part? Any sort of advice on this would be very appreciated as it's quite intimidating to me at the moment.

Thank you in advance x
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LinguaPony
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Re: English, would love to learn Russian. Any advice?

Postby LinguaPony » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:38 am

First of all, thanks for your interest in my native language :) It is believed to be one of the hardest, but I would like to encourage you from the start by offering some proof that it can be done. Below is a video of a conversation between a native speaker of Russian and an L2 learner. Lucas Bighetti is from Brazil, but from the way he talks I wouldn't ever guess that he is not a native speaker. He even uses slang expressions correctly, and there is very little accent - sometimes it disappears completely.



According to Lucas himself, it all started when a friend gave him jokingly a textbook of Russian, according to a tradition to give each other gifts for graduation, which the other person won't like. Later he chatted a lot on text messengers with native speakers, and only after that proceeded to systematic studies. Unconventional, but it worked for him.

Should I learn the scripture first, or start with the verbal/conversational part?


As for that, whenever I go to a linguistic school, they start teaching me both things from day one, no matter what language. Even for Chinese the same method is used, and no matter how much we curse those characters, it works! So it should work with Russian as well. Are you learning on your own or with a teacher?

As for resources, I can't help you there much, since I never had to learn my own language as L2, but there is a Russian Study Group here where some such resources are listed.
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Re: English, would love to learn Russian. Any advice?

Postby tarvos » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:33 am

Yeah, Lucas' Russian is very good (can tell from experience).
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Re: English, would love to learn Russian. Any advice?

Postby Speakeasy » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:35 pm

Hello, Bertheloti, welcome to the forum! I look forward to following your participation in the numerous discussion threads in this forum. As to your questions:

WRITTEN versus SPOKEN
I am encouraged by your efforts to familiarize yourself with the Cyrillic alphabet, this will most definitely be of value as you progress. However, when reading even the simplest Russian text, you are most likely “mentally pronouncing” the words and, through this process, you are developing a speech model which, without audio accompaniment, is probably less than ideal. For this reason, and in full agreement with Linguapony, I would suggest that you learn BOTH the sound system and its graphical representation simultaneously. In any event, as you have most likely discovered, most introductory language courses for independent learners present both.

WHICH MATERIALS?
Despite the difficulties of learning Russian, or perhaps owing to the perceived difficulties, this foreign language has become increasingly popular over the past few decades and, as a result, there has been an increase in the number of resources available for learning it. First, I would say that an intelligent adult, blessed with sufficient determination, can learn a great deal from any set of materials, be they well-conceived or not. Second, the materials themselves can be separated into three broad categories: (a) those that are specifically designed for presentation in a classroom by a competent instructor, (b) those that are specifically designed for use by an independent learner, and (c) those which are not specifically designed to assist in language learning; that is, native materials. In my experience, independent learners should avoid materials in the first category, most particularly during the initial stages of learning. I will admit that some materials falling into the first category can also be used fairly readily for self-study; however, these would be exceptions to the general rule. There are many members who would disagree with this advice; however, we should bear in mind that these people tend to be very successful autonomous learners of just about anything that they set their minds to.

COURSES I WOULD RECOMMEND
Amongst the numerous alternatives for learning Russian, you might wish to consider the short list below.

U.C.L.A. Beginner’s Russian
This introductory course is surprisingly well-conceived. All of the audio-visual study material is online at the U.C.L.A. website. Here's the LINK: https://ccle.ucla.edu/course/view/beginrussn You can purchase the accompanying textbook directly from the U.C.L.A via this link or on Amazon and elsewhere. Do not be deceived by the low price of the textbook (which serves mostly as a guidebook to the online material), this is a truly good introductory course.

Linguaphone Complete Russian
While Linguaphone would not be my first choice, as you have already familiarized yourself with the Cyrillic alphabet, this course might be of some benefit. The learning curve might seem a little steep, but this has more to do with the language that with the method. Although the materials themselves date from the 1970’s, they contain a lot of very good material which will take you to the Intermediate Level. The only drawback of using the Linguaphone courses is that the accompanying notes to the student can seem a little opaque and, for this reason, I would recommend that you accompany these materials with a very simple grammar. Used Linguaphone courses can be found on eBay and elsewhere at very attractive prices. Linguaphone’s regular full prices for their Beginning-Intermediate courses are in the 400 $US range and, while they are very good, I find them a little over-priced. Fortunately, there are two alternatives: (a) the company offers "Rebfurbished" courses at about half-price. These have been opened for display purposes, but have not been used, and (b) the company offers Inventory Reduction Sales two-to-three times a year at about half-price.

Modern Russian, Clayton L. Dawson
Published in 1964 by the Georgetown University Press, this course uses the "audio-lingual" methodology which was popular from about 1960 through 1975. That is, it relies on the presentation of Grammar, Basic Conversations, and the (massive) repetition of sentence-pattern drills and exercises for absorption of the language. While some users might decry the vocabulary, some of which is now out-dated, along with the teaching style, which can be ferociously dull, it is quite effective. It is published in two volumes (Modern Russian 1, Modern Russian 2) along with two workbooks. Oddly, the "Supplementary Pronunciation Drills" or "Sound Drills" that are part of the lesson material in Modern Russian 1 are included in the "Instructor's Manual", which is sold separately. So, if you choose this method, be sure that you purchase the latter manual. You can still find all of the textbooks on Amazon. The 60+ hours of audio files are freely available at the Indiana University CELTIE website. Here's the LINK: http://www.iu.edu/~celtie/russian_b09.html

Assimil Russian
While Assimil Russian would not be my first choice, I would most definitely recommend this course as a supplement to any other method. The target language is presented through 100 short dialogues which do not share a particularly recognizeable theme. Although this might be somewhat destabilizing at first, it is actually one of the strengths of the method. The audio portion is delivered at a slower-than-normal cadence which, in the case of a language such as Russian, can be something of a benefit for the learner. As for the Linguaphone method, the accompanying notes to the student can seem a little opaque and, for this reason, I would recommend that you accompany these materials with a very simple grammar.

COURSES I WOULD AVOID

Pimsleur Russian
Generally speaking, I am quite a fan of the Pimsleur Method. However, my experiences with Pimsleur Polish and Pimsleur Russian lead me to conclude that the challenges of learning a Slavic language collide head-on with the major weaknesses of this method. The Pimsleur Method does not address grammar in a straight-forward manner. The “Unlimited” edition includes a partial glossary of the new words that are presented in the lessons; however, the MP3 audio version does not. In my opinion, these weaknesses, when combined with the mumbled endings of nouns and adjectives (which are governed by the case system), and with the decidedly different approach to verb conjugations or even verb choice, interfere with the learning process. Furthermore, a few of my native Russian or Polish speaking friends found that either the sentence structures or choices of vocabulary were, at times, so odd as to approach the point of being unintelligible.

Routledge Intensive Russian
First, I would underscore that the textbook and CDs are often sold separately and that this is not clear on Amazon. So, if you choose this method, be sure you order both. Second, I would point out that the Routledge Intensive Language Courses are designed for classroom instruction, NOT for self-study. While I have not used the Russian Intensive Russian course, I have used their courses for Dutch and German, and I found that the explanations of grammar are particularly poorly done. You can find much better self-study material elsewhere. Nonetheless, once you have advanced in your study of Russian, you might consider buying the CDs alone, as the transcripts are posted on Routledge's website.

EDITED:
Assimil Russian
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bertheloti
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Re: English, would love to learn Russian. Any advice?

Postby bertheloti » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:29 pm

Thanks so much for the replies everyone! Everything I've read here has been so encouraging and has only strengthened by desire to learn the language. I will give each resource a good look and devise a study plan that I can worth with :)

Many many thanks all!
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Re: English, would love to learn Russian. Any advice?

Postby Random Review » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:38 am

Isn't scripture in Old Church Slavonic rather than Russian? ;)
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Re: English, would love to learn Russian. Any advice?

Postby Dylan95 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:48 pm

I highly recommend these sources for beginners, especially RT's site. It has lessons, grammar explanations, vocab, etc. Both of them are free!

http://learnrussian.rt.com/

This second website has all of the central grammar tables to learning Russian. Don't learn all of the cases at once. Start with the nominate, then the accusative etc. If you don't have experience with case systems, this might seem a bit tricky at first. I promise you that it's not as difficult as it seems.

http://www.russianlessons.net/

As for textbooks, I personally used Голоса (beginner) and В Пути (intermediate). I liked both of these textbooks. I was assigned them when I took Russian in college. They are quite expensive though, so if you're tight on money, I don't think this is mandatory. The internet has plenty of free resources. It probably wouldn't hurt to make a Vkontake account as well, and somehow find some Russians to chat with once you're deeper in your studies.
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Re: English, would love to learn Russian. Any advice?

Postby Fortheo » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:22 am

Speakeasy wrote:COURSES I WOULD RECOMMEND
Amongst the numerous alternatives for learning Russian, you might wish to consider the short list below.

U.C.L.A. Beginner’s Russian
This introductory course is surprisingly well-conceived. All of the audio-visual study material is online at the U.C.L.A. website. Here's the LINK: https://ccle.ucla.edu/course/view/beginrussn You can purchase the accompanying textbook directly from the U.C.L.A via this link or on Amazon and elsewhere. Do not be deceived by the low price of the textbook (which serves mostly as a guidebook to the online material), this is a truly good introductory course.


Thanks for this. I've gone through Michel Thomas and about 20 lessons of the 1973 version of Assimil, but I've started feeling like I need a nice, focused, and more structured course to go along with Assimil. That UCLA course looks exactly like what i need, so thank you for sharing it.
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Re: English, would love to learn Russian. Any advice?

Postby Speakeasy » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:27 am

Speakeasy wrote: ... U.C.L.A. Beginner’s Russian ... Here's the LINK: https://ccle.ucla.edu/course/view/beginrussn ...

Fortheo wrote: Thanks for this ... That UCLA course looks exactly like what i need, so thank you for sharing it.
ah, .. er, ... uhmmm ... When I worked on this course a couple of years ago, access to the U.C.L.A. was free to members of the public. Given your interest in this course, I clicked on the link and it now seems that one must have a UCLA Logon ID.

Now then, by coincidence, earlier this week, I happened to come across a copy of the corresponding workbook in a bookstore in Montréal which specializes in language-learning materials. I flipped through the book and I distinctly recall that the http link was provided along with the mention that access to the website was free to the public. By way of confirmation, the information available on Amazon continues to advise the prospective buyer: “with the book, readers have access to an interactive website full of videos, audio, and self-correcting exercises.” https://www.amazon.com/Beginners-Russian-Interactive-Online-Workbook/dp/0781812518/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1518830312&sr=8-1&keywords=Beginner%E2%80%99s+Russian

So then, whether or not you will actually gain access is now something of a mystery to me. In the event that you cannot access the site, please accept my apologies!
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Fortheo
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Re: English, would love to learn Russian. Any advice?

Postby Fortheo » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:23 am

Speakeasy wrote:
Speakeasy wrote: ... U.C.L.A. Beginner’s Russian ... Here's the LINK: https://ccle.ucla.edu/course/view/beginrussn ...

Fortheo wrote: Thanks for this ... That UCLA course looks exactly like what i need, so thank you for sharing it.
ah, .. er, ... uhmmm ... When I worked on this course a couple of years ago, access to the U.C.L.A. was free to members of the public. Given your interest in this course, I clicked on the link and it now seems that one must have a UCLA Logon ID.

Now then, by coincidence, earlier this week, I happened to come across a copy of the corresponding workbook in a bookstore in Montréal which specializes in language-learning materials. I flipped through the book and I distinctly recall that the http link was provided along with the mention that access to the website was free to the public. By way of confirmation, the information available on Amazon continues to advise the prospective buyer: “with the book, readers have access to an interactive website full of videos, audio, and self-correcting exercises.” https://www.amazon.com/Beginners-Russian-Interactive-Online-Workbook/dp/0781812518/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1518830312&sr=8-1&keywords=Beginner%E2%80%99s+Russian

So then, whether or not you will actually gain access is now something of a mystery to me. In the event that you cannot access the site, please accept my apologies!


It required a bit more work than most sites, but I managed to create a UCLA login ID and gain access to the course. Essentially I had to create an ID, then enroll in the Russian course using an enrollment key that is provided on the site. I'm pretty sure I have access to everything now. My book hasn't arrived yet, but I'm very happy with the structure of the online component of the course, and I'm looking forward to starting it once my book arrives.

Thanks again.
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