Experiments: Gold List vs Anki vs ....

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Re: Experiments: Gold List vs Anki vs ....

Postby zenmonkey » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:08 am

smallwhite wrote:Thanks zenmonkey and Iversen for the tips. I know I was not doing exactly Goldlist or Iversen-style word lists. I already have a method that produces 90%+ recall and is convenient to do (flashcards on phone), so my main focus was whether the general process of doing pen and paper wordlists would be faster (than 90 seconds per word). I also realise that results would improve with time and experience. But I guess it was hard for me to act naturally when I knew I was testing myself, and I wasn't able to do my paper wordlists at a natural speed.


If you have a method with 90% recall at 90 sec per word, that about 2000 words in 200 hrs.
That sounds fantastic and I would not change a thing. My overhead is much higher.

Btw, does goldlisting require you to read or otherwise have contact with the language? That is, is the exposure you get from reading part of the method? Or does it work / will you have 70% words to carry forward even if you don't read at all? If reading is required then reading time should be counted. With flashcards you don't need further exposure or revision, you'll simply fail more cards and have to do more reps, but the system takes care of everything for you.


In theory, it doesn't require it but it does assume that you are being exposed to the language through reading, lessons or other activities. They tell you not to worry about that additional exposure, if it happens. But like flashcards, it is a self contained system - you eliminate the 30% you retained and rework the remaining 70%. So perhaps you are over learning a few terms at first. Basically if after several distillations your retention falls way below that 30% when you are getting to distillation 10 or 11 (you've seen and rewritten this word 11 times over 22 weeks) it just gets eliminated and you move on. While that part makes sense to me, I'm still wondering about the retention of terms eliminated early on over those long stretches.

In terms of what 'needs' to counted, for me, within the scope of this experiment - since the reading or other exposure will be statistically the same for both Anki or GLM I don't have to worry about it.

Here is a blog that does a good job describing the GLM: https://howtogetfluent.com/__trashed/

I will say that the general mis-use of the terms short-term and long-term memory by the proponents of the GLM annoys me. Short term memory is something that is counted in seconds and not days. What they are trying to describe is 'something else'. But ok, minor grump.
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Re: Experiments: Gold List vs Anki vs ....

Postby Brun Ugle » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:50 pm

I was going to warn you about his misuse of short and long term memory, but I forgot.

I just checked myself on five random lists from the end of October/ beginning of November and had no problems, but that’s only a few months ago.

The method assumes you will do other things as well, but I have found that I usually remember around 30% even if I don’t see the words again. I used some lists of words I took from the internet and some of my lists are from my reading and I seem to remember about the same amount either way. Most of the lists I got from the net are not words that I have come across again yet, like names of tools and insects, but they were no harder or easier than the other words.

The thing that makes the biggest difference in how much I remember is my state of mind when I write the list. I’ve struggled with lists I made when I was tired or stressed. So the whole thing about relaxing and writing mindfully using your best handwriting, etc is essential.
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Re: Experiments: Gold List vs Anki vs ....

Postby Brun Ugle » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:37 am

It occurs to me that maybe Smallwhite has an especially strong ability to focus and concentrate. My mind is like a butterfly flitting about aimlessly in all directions. And maybe that's why I find Goldlists help me to remember things so much better. Having to write as neatly as I can forces me to take a bit more time and focus a bit better which means my mind is more likely to take in the information. I really don't think Goldlists are faster to use than Anki, but I think for me, having to write things out helps me to remember them much better. Also I enjoy doing them and find it more relaxing, so that probably also helps my memory.
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Re: Experiments: Gold List vs Anki vs ....

Postby Dylan95 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:04 pm

Brun Ugle wrote:It occurs to me that maybe Smallwhite has an especially strong ability to focus and concentrate. My mind is like a butterfly flitting about aimlessly in all directions. And maybe that's why I find Goldlists help me to remember things so much better. Having to write as neatly as I can forces me to take a bit more time and focus a bit better which means my mind is more likely to take in the information. I really don't think Goldlists are faster to use than Anki, but I think for me, having to write things out helps me to remember them much better. Also I enjoy doing them and find it more relaxing, so that probably also helps my memory.



You can always write things out using Anki. Whenever I'm simply at home, I write the words out as I practice with Anki on a separate notebook. If I have time I even write down example sentences using the words as they pop out. This has been much more effective for me than passively clicking through Anki, although that has its benefits as well. I've never tried the Gold list method, but it seems to be very effective as well.
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Re: Experiments: Gold List vs Anki vs ....

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:33 pm

I (almost) want to try this method with two languages of the same level (not a B2 language vs an A1 language), where the level of interference should be minimal (neither should be closely related to each other nor to anything else I know), and the time spent on "other exposure" (reading, listening, whatever) should be the same. So, all else being equal(ly easy or difficult), only the vocabulary learning is different. Same number of words/sentences added each day/week.
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Re: Experiments: Gold List vs Anki vs ....

Postby rdearman » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:19 pm

jeff_lindqvist wrote:I (almost) want to try this method with two languages of the same level (not a B2 language vs an A1 language), where the level of interference should be minimal (neither should be closely related to each other nor to anything else I know), and the time spent on "other exposure" (reading, listening, whatever) should be the same. So, all else being equal(ly easy or difficult), only the vocabulary learning is different. Same number of words/sentences added each day/week.

Why not pick two A0 languages?
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Re: Experiments: Gold List vs Anki vs ....

Postby zenmonkey » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:30 pm

jeff_lindqvist wrote:I (almost) want to try this method with two languages of the same level (not a B2 language vs an A1 language), where the level of interference should be minimal (neither should be closely related to each other nor to anything else I know), and the time spent on "other exposure" (reading, listening, whatever) should be the same. So, all else being equal(ly easy or difficult), only the vocabulary learning is different. Same number of words/sentences added each day/week.


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Re: Experiments: Gold List vs Anki vs ....

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:48 pm

rdearman wrote:Why not pick two A0 languages?


Yeah, sure, but which ones? Anything Germanic/Romance/(Slavic) would mean some discount - even at A0 level. It should be easy enough to add to Anki (preferably something in Latin script). Of course there are many languages with enough material. Something from the Brythonic Celtic group (or Armenian or Albanian) should be enough (if I want to stick to Indo-European), or Turkish, or Hungarian (although that one is a likely candidate for the Assimil in two weeks approach...). If I include other scripts: Persian/Dari, Arabic, Kurdish, Urdu/Hindi... Hmm... I may have an idea.
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Re: Experiments: Gold List vs Anki vs ....

Postby emer1ca » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:37 pm

Hey folks!

I'm a complete rookie regarding the GoldList Method and the Iversen Method. The latter is a no-brainer while the former bugs me a little bit. I've just seen the video called GOLDLIST METHOD for Beginners | Christopher Huff on YouTube so don't lapidate me, please. :D

I'm gonna start my Bronze book next week but I'd like to clear something up first, tell me if I got that right..

After the third distillation (D3), I've got something like 8 words left, right?

I pick a Silver book, open it, write the date on the top left corner, write down 25 new words -including the 8 words left at D3- and repeat the process over and over. Did I miss something on the way? :mrgreen:

Anyhoo, Im gonna keep a close watch on that topic, may the force be with you zenmonkey ;)
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Re: Experiments: Gold List vs Anki vs ....

Postby zenmonkey » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:21 pm

emer1ca wrote:After the third distillation (D3), I've got something like 8 words left, right?

I pick a Silver book, open it, write the date on the top left corner, write down 25 new words -including the 8 words left at D3- and repeat the process over and over. Did I miss something on the way? :mrgreen:

Anyhoo, Im gonna keep a close watch on that topic, may the force be with you zenmonkey ;)


Consider the silver a distillation of D3 so if you have 8 words --> 5-6 that you are going to write into the Silver headlist which you combine not with new words but with other D3s from your Bronze book. So 5 lists now make one 25 item entry in the Silver book...
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