New BBC Language Service for Africa- BBC Pidgin

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s_allard
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Re: New BBC Language Service for Africa- BBC Pidgin

Postby s_allard » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:41 am

When iguanamon mentioned Nouchi of Côte d'Ivoire, my ears perked up. I had written about it extensively in HTLAL because it is a very interesting example of the formation before our very eyes of a new language born out the necessity to find some common medium of communication derived from the intersection of the various languages in contact.

My starting point in this whole debate is the historical fact that the official languages of nearly all African countries - and I'm more familiar with the so-called French official languages countries - were imposed by colonial powers. French and English are not indigenous to Africa. What this means, among other things, is that there is a wide range of variation of proficiency in the these official languages within the local populations.

It is probably no surprise to anyone here that in Nigeria like in Côte d'Ivoire, mastery of the official language goes with social class, education and time spent in the former colonial country. Of course many local languages or "langues nationales" are widely spoken and are more often than not the maternal or first language of the vast majority of the population.

All this means that even at the even among the elite, the standard variety of the official languages has taken on a local colour. All though it is probably never explicitly said, I think that there is a widespread perception that the African varieties of French and English at all levels of society are inferior to their counterparts in Great Britain and France.

I mention this because I believe that one of the main motivation behind a) the generalization of a local language, e.g. Wolof in Senegal, b) the rise of a new common language, Nouchi in Côte d'Ivoire and c) the spread of a local variety of the colonial heritage language, e.g. Pidgin in Nigeria, is the desire to have a common language that is considered indigenous to the country and not some inferior variety of former colonial languages.

What I think is rather unfortunate is that the recognition of the role of Pidgin and much of the work of its standardization are being done in Great Britain by the BBC and not by institutions in Nigeria and other concerned countries. To me this smacks a bit not so much of neocolonialism but rather of the reluctance of local elites who cling desperately to the notion that they speak proper English.

One could envisage the day when Pidgin could become the official language of Nigeria, as Wolof may become in Senegal and Nouchi in Côte d'Ivoire. Then maybe people will speak of Nigerian, Senegalese and Ivoirien as distinct languages. I'll be the first to admit that this is not going to happen soon.
Edit: clarification of "as Wolof may become in Senegal..."
Last edited by s_allard on Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New BBC Language Service for Africa- BBC Pidgin

Postby Speakeasy » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:52 am

s_allard wrote: ... My starting point in this whole debate is the historical fact that the official languages of nearly all African countries - and I'm more familiar with the so-called French official languages countries - were imposed by colonial powers. French and English are not indigenous to Africa...
This is exactly the type of politically-charged statement that I anticipated (even though the original post was not politically inspired). Although I am tempted to respond, doing so would be an unwelcome digression of this discussion thread. Nevertheless, should you wish to debate the issues that you raised, we can meet in the Private Message Room, just down the hall, past the water-cooler, to the left. You can't miss it.
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Re: New BBC Language Service for Africa- BBC Pidgin

Postby nooj » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:46 am

That's not a politically charged statement, that is a verifiable fact that English and French are not indigenous to Africa, but were brought by the colonists. It's in the history books.

Now, has anyone travelled to these countries or is thinking of doing so? We have some globe trotters here, I am wondering what their experience has been.

I met a French lady just a couple of weeks ago who had been working in Cote d'Ivoire for several years, but silly me, I never even thought about asking about how she lived the linguistic situation there. It must be a fascinating linguistic hotpot.

In Senegal, I have read of statistics up to 90% of the population knowing Wolof (for a given measure of knowing, I assume at least understanding), with the radio, TV and internet amplifying its use massively. Incidentally, Senegal has a huge jazz festival. If you are a jazz lover, I think it is definitely worth the detour...

I wonder how much material there is for Wolof available online. It is a language I heard a lot in the streets, as the neighbourhood in a city I was living in, had a lot of Senegalese immigrants, and I've always thought it sounded nice. Given how many speak Swahili as a lingua franca across East Africa, are there people here learning Swahili as well? A Study Group for African languages when? :D
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Saim
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Re: New BBC Language Service for Africa- BBC Pidgin

Postby Saim » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:07 am

s_allard wrote:c) the spread of a local variety of the colonial heritage language, e.g. Pidgin in Nigeria, is the desire to have a common language that is considered indigenous to the country and not some inferior variety of former colonial languages.


Nigerian Pidgin isn't a variety of English.

Speakeasy wrote:This is exactly the type of politically-charged statement that I anticipated (even though the original post was not politically inspired).


Impose does have connotations that would imply a sort of value judgement, but other than that it's a statement of fact and not "politically charged". What we do after accepting this historical fact (i.e. proposing one set of language policies or another) is indeed politics.
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s_allard
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Re: New BBC Language Service for Africa- BBC Pidgin

Postby s_allard » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:47 pm

Saim wrote:
s_allard wrote:c) the spread of a local variety of the colonial heritage language, e.g. Pidgin in Nigeria, is the desire to have a common language that is considered indigenous to the country and not some inferior variety of former colonial languages.


Nigerian Pidgin isn't a variety of English.

...

I stand corrected. Although I think the intent was clear, I should have said something more like "c) the spread of a contact language based on the colonial heritage language."

On a slightly different note, it would seem that in Nigeria this common language is often referred to as Naija. I find this very significant because it identifies this lingua franca with the country and moves away from the terms such as Pidgin or Broken English that can have negative connotations.
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Re: New BBC Language Service for Africa- BBC Pidgin

Postby Seneca » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:08 pm

What is the connection of a creole to a pidgin? My understanding is a pidgin is nobody's native language. So if we have people who speak a pidgin now, and then raise their kids speaking it, does it then transition to a creole? Or are these terms not necessarily related in a straightforward way?
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Re: New BBC Language Service for Africa- BBC Pidgin

Postby aokoye » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:56 pm

Hrhenry wrote:One of the things I really like about the BBC is their (somewhat recent) push to represent accents that aren't traditionally "BBC English".

Can you define somewhat recent? I also get a lot of news from the BBC but I mainly get it from their TV station (BBC World News) so what watching could be different from what you're hearing.
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Saim
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Re: New BBC Language Service for Africa- BBC Pidgin

Postby Saim » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:01 pm

s_allard wrote:I stand corrected. Although I think the intent was clear, I should have said something more like "c) the spread of a contact language based on the colonial heritage language."


I'm trying really hard not to be pedantic, but let's just throw in lexically before based and then I have absolutely no caveats. :)

On a slightly different note, it would seem that in Nigeria this common language is often referred to as Naija. I find this very significant because it identifies this lingua franca with the country and moves away from the terms such as Pidgin or Broken English that can have negative connotations.


Couldn't this also be dangerous for linguistic diversity? If Naija becomes identified with a consolidated national identity, couldn't it have an easier time at displacing Igbo, Yoruba, Hausa, and all the other languages of Nigeria, than English has? Just look at Swahili -- it has been much more successful than English or French at displacing African indigenous languages.

Something to think about, I guess. We probably agree on the negative effects of using English and French as elite languages in these countries, but maintaining the previous hierarchy and picking one of the indigenous languages or a creole to put on top of the pyramid is hardly a solution in my view.

Seneca wrote:What is the connection of a creole to a pidgin? My understanding is a pidgin is nobody's native language. So if we have people who speak a pidgin now, and then raise their kids speaking it, does it then transition to a creole? Or are these terms not necessarily related in a straightforward way?


You're right, a pidgin by definition is not spoken as a native language.

In theory a creole is what happens when a pidgin becomes nativised, thus functioning as any other natural language. That said, some linguists have recently cast doubt on whether this is actually how creoles develop as there appear to be some creoles that didn't go through the pidgin stage at all.
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