Online Book Shopping - The Frog and the Scorpion

[neumanc]

Does Abebooks have any rivals?

I know lots of used books appear on eBay, but I don't know of any used-books-only website other than abebooks.

At least for the German used-book market, there is a very important rival. It's called "Booklooker" (http://www.booklooker.de). It's my first address for used and out-of-print books. There are a lot of independent small booksellers and private sellers on booklooker. Highly recommended!

[Kat]

I can recommend Booklooker as well.
Boekwinkeltjes is a similar website for Dutch secondhand books.

[Xenops]

I have used Alibris a lot in the past for used books: I haven't as much lately because of lack of space, and because I have access to good libraries.

https://www.alibris.com

[DaveAgain]

I can recommend Booklooker as well.
Boekwinkeltjes is a similar website for Dutch secondhand books.

The dutch one is such a pretty word that I'm going to have to try to buy something there at least once.

[Speakeasy]

A Flawed Process
I believe that I have finally discovered the process which can lead to dissatisfaction when ordering “packages” of used books and supplements from the websites of the major online booksellers. This was revealed to me recently (by reading between the lines) in an exchange of some 50-plus Emails with staff representing the different levels involved in the process.

It would appear that large resellers of used books, and even many of the smaller ones, purchase substantial quantities of unidentified books and supplemental materials, often by the pallet-load, by weight, or by volume. These materials are delivered to the purchasers’ warehouses which, in the case of the larger resellers, are often located quite some distance from the company’s headquarters and customer service functions.

Warehouse employees receive delivery of the unidentified masses of books and enter individual items into the vendors’ inventory databases by the simple process of scanning the ISBN bar codes. This is where the first error occurs. As publishers often assign a separate ISBNs to “packages” containing both a book and supplemental materials such as audio cassettes, CDs, and the like, items bearing such ISBN codes, but which no longer contain the supplemental materials, are automatically misclassified in the vendors’ databases as “Beginning [Language], book plus two cassettes.”

Warehouse employees are typically unskilled, low-paid workers with a high turnover rate who are pushed to the limits of their endurance to “produce” on behalf of their employers. As such, they have neither the time, nor the motivation, to notice or to correct any erroneously coded items. It is quite plausible that, should they report an observed discrepancy to their supervisors, they would be admonished for slowing down production and told: “head office will take care of that, just move the product!” It does not take too many iterations of this cycle for employees (and their colleagues) to develop a cynical attitude towards their employers as exemplified in the expression “it’s a company truck”, a catch-phrase which is pregnant with meaning.

The large resellers of used books, and some small-to-medium-sized ones, use automatic pricing systems. This is where the second error occurs. Owing to the misclassification which occurred during the initial step, a “higher” price is assigned to an item which has been erroneously designated as being a “package” whereas the item which was actually placed the warehouse is simply a book. This higher price, when compared to prices for the book without the supplemental materials, supports the “illusion” that the item offered is, indeed, a package.

In the case of small resellers, whose offices often form part of their warehouse facilities, confirmation of the physical contents of a “package” is often possible. However, as the warehouses of the large resellers of used books are located at quite some distance from the company’s offices, and because the operating margins in this business are quite low, even when requested to do so by interested buyers, these resellers will refuse to direct their warehouse employees to pull an item from inventory, inspect it, and confirm that it does, indeed, contain both the book and the supplements. One can hardly blame them! Nevertheless, this represents the only opportunity for avoiding misunderstanding.

Predicable Results
Although there is no deliberate effort to deceive the buyer on the part of the vendor, a trap has been set! And then, somebody places an order …

Upon receipt the item, which was incorrectly listed as “Beginning [Language], book plus two cassettes”, the unwitting customer is disappointed to discover that the supplemental items, which justified the higher price, are absent. Quite naturally, he communicates with the vendor and seeks redress. In my experience (I have purchased literally several thousand used books via Amazon, AbeBooks, and eBay) there are two responses:

(a) The smaller booksellers will almost always apologize for the misunderstanding, offer to reimburse the total price of the transaction including postal charges, and suggest that the buyer either keep the book or donate it to a local charity. This often requires a very brief exchange of Emails and the matter is resolved to the buyer’s satisfaction within a period of two or three days.

(b) The larger booksellers will likely deny that the original offer ever included the missing supplements. Should the buyer submit as proof, a copy of the written “confirmation” of the transaction wherein the (erroneous) description appears, along with a screen-shot of the offer as it appeared at the moment of sale, the seller will most likely refer the buyer to their policy (which was not directly available in the offer) which states that supplemental materials may not be included, advising that the policy takes precedence over any specific offers and over any written confirmations of acceptance of a purchase order. This is the point at which an "error" becomes act of "bad faith" on the part of the seller. There begins a lengthy dispute between the buyer and the seller.

Ultimately, having exhausted all reasonable attempts at arriving at a satisfactory resolution to the matter, the buyer requests that operator of the website (Amazon, AbeBooks, eBay) intervene. The process is reinitiated and the outcomes are, from the buyer’s perspective, uncertain. Although their intervention is rarely required in the case of small vendors, the website’s customer service personnel seem to have no difficulty “hammering” a recalcitrant vendor into refunding a disgruntled buyer. Curiously, they do not operate with the same zeal in cases where large vendors are concerned. One wonders why!

Two Recent Examples
Here are extracts from the Emails that I exchanged following two recent purchases which went awry …

Exchange with Bayside Books (a small-to-medium-sized reseller)

Speakeasy to Bayside:
Thank you very much for your prompt reply, I greatly appreciate your efforts at resolving this matter quickly. When I was searching for the items which I eventually ordered from Bayside Books, one of the factors that I took into consideration in selecting a vendor was the size of your collection relative to that of the much larger booksellers who have been “vacuum fishing” the world-wide inventories of used books over the past decade. That is, given your firms’ relatively smaller size when compared to the monsters in the industry, I was hoping that your company might have retained an element of “customer service” (such a quaint notion from the nineties) that the larger firms have collectively jettisoned over the past few years. Your reply confirmed my assumption. Now then, as to your kind offer …

Bayside to Speakeasy:
Thank you for your email. We are terribly sorry you have received an incorrectly listed item. We strive to accurately list and ship books, however sometimes errors occur. We have refunded your item Just Enough German in full and apologize for this inconvenience. You may keep or donate the book that was sent to you.

Exchange With AbeBooks (following an exchange of 29 Emails with Erdgodebooks, a large vendor)
Speakeasy to AbeBooks (approaching the end of the saga):
Thank you for your prompt reply. Please note that, as I advised you in my previous message, I will no longer communicate directly with Erdgodebooks. They have been consistently evasive and have been using delaying tactics and deflection in order to render our discussions pointless and without any real effect. The vendor is clearly operating in bad faith. It is POINTLESS for me to continue dealing with them on this issue. I have already sent you all of the Email communications between the vendor and myself.

As to their latest request that I return the damaged item to them, I have already advised the vendor: (1) the item is NOT in a condition for commercial resale and I have provided photograph proof of this indisputable fact, (2) I have conceded a value of US$ 1.00 on the price which represents its fair market value according to similar items which are for sale via AbeBooks’ website, (3) the vendor's acceptance of this discount means that the defective item has been paid for in full and that it now belongs to me, accordingly (4) there is no need to return the item. This new request is no more than an additional DELAYING tactic. I refuse to pay the postage costs of returning this damaged item to the vendor and I refuse deal with them any further.

Please REFUND my purchase IMMEDIATELY. Should I not receive written confirmation of the processing of a refund within the NEXT TWO DAYS, I will take this as a sign that AbeBooks is not acting as an impartial arbiter in this matter and that it is, instead, operating in concert with a vendor which has been acting in bad faith. Accordingly, I will instruct my Bankers to REVERSE THE CHARGES on by credit card account. Should you not have the authority to process the refund, I suggest that you forward this Email to someone having the requisite authority.

Finally, you have received the Email exchanges that I have had with Erdgodebooks. I presume that you are possessed of the intelligence and empathy to see that my confidence in this vendor has been sorely abused; their conduct in this matter has been dishonourable, unjust, and clearly illegal (failure to live up to a written commercial contract). If you were in my position, you would be as dissatisfied with the situation as I am. I am calling upon you to act honourably.

PS: I eventually received the refund ... it took a total of 39 Emails!

EDITED:
Typos. Tinkering.

[David1917]

Thanks for resurrecting this thread. It's really a travesty what's going on with the used book world. Stock photos that do not accurately reflect the item you will receive, vague condition descriptions that all but absolve the seller of properly inspecting their inventory ("may contain highlighting" "may not include dust jacket" - two make-or-break conditions for myself), and a clearly malfunctioning pricing algorithm that ascribes obscene and baseless values to used books.

Here are 3 copies of "Teach Yourself Russian Through Reading," each in the neighborhood of $180:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0000CNK9Y

[aokoye]

And this is why I'm picky with who I buy used books through. The same is true of new books from third party sellers on Amazon, I've gotten burned enough doing that to just say no for the most part. I mean I also live in the land that hosts what could be called a used book wonderland (Powell's), but there are very few online resellers who I'll buy through.

[David1917]

And this is why I'm picky with who I buy used books through. The same is true of new books from third party sellers on Amazon, I've gotten burned enough doing that to just say no for the most part. I mean I also live in the land that hosts what could be called a used book wonderland (Powell's), but there are very few online resellers who I'll buy through.

Are you offering your Powell's scouring services to us, then?

[David1917]

Adding onto the above, brick-and-mortar used booksellers are still not rare things, and the used language materials are definitely available if you persist. I live in a small city in the American south, a region not known for its cosmopolitan character, and in the used stores here and in neighboring areas have found items like:

Assimil French Without Toil, Teach Yourself Welsh (1st ed), Teach Yourself Welsh (2nd ed), Colloquial Rumanian (Trubner's), Colloquial Turkish (Trubner's), Teach Yourself Beginner's Hindi Script, Colloquial Icelandic, etc. etc. all for very reasonable prices, with the added satisfaction of having been able to preview the item yourself and ensure the dustjacket exists and there are no highlights, etc.

Most recently, I was floored to find an early hardback copy of John Mace's Teach Yourself Modern Persian in my local bookshop. I have been specifically scouting this item due to its more clear printing of the Persian script, and was ready several times to roll the dice on a $20+ copy on Amazon or eBay and hope that it was a good copy. But I got it for $6 at a local hole-in-the-wall instead. Of course, if time is of the essence, then sometimes you do just need to bite the bullet and order online and hope for the best. I recently ordered Assimil's Arabic and even though I meticulously matched the listed ISBN's and page count with what was on Assimil's site, I was nervous up until I opened the package - luckily this worked out. On the other hand, I once ordered a Chinese reader meant to accompany the DeFrancis series and was greeted with a Japanese novel.

In the long run, you sort of have to make used book shopping a part of your life and travels. I dragged my girlfriend to dozens of used bookstores in Germany and Austria in search of Langenscheidt books last summer (it helps that she has her own interests in book collecting). Finally, scout out library sales. Most people go to these with scanners to find high-value art books and the like, so the foreign language section is likely to be rather sparsely populated, and well stocked with unique and vintage items. At $0.50 per paperback, you can expand your personal language-learning library for the price of a latte.

https://www.booksalefinder.com/

I'm going to Nashville in August, and what do you know, their library is having a sale that weekend!

[aokoye]

And this is why I'm picky with who I buy used books through. The same is true of new books from third party sellers on Amazon, I've gotten burned enough doing that to just say no for the most part. I mean I also live in the land that hosts what could be called a used book wonderland (Powell's), but there are very few online resellers who I'll buy through.

Are you offering your Powell's scouring services to us, then?

I mean if you want me to see if the bigger store has stuff, I actually would have no problem taking out an extra 10 min of my week to try to find something in the larger store (they have four or five stories only one of which I'm close to on a regular basis). Shipping it to you....that's a whole other story

Also Powell's website is truly horrible for browsing. What their brick and mortar stores are awesome for has been demolished on their website. Finding something via ISBN is fine and their staff are very helpful (if not overworked), so I'm sure calling to see if they had a book would also work.