Underrated Languages

[geoffw]

No suprise. I few young Germans asked me "where is the Czech Republic?"

That sounds pretty remarkable to me; I certainly hope it's not representative. Wouldn't that be kind of like someone from California not knowing where Mexico is?

[tiia]

No suprise. I few young Germans asked me "where is the Czech Republic?"

That sounds pretty remarkable to me; I certainly hope it's not representative. Wouldn't that be kind of like someone from California not knowing where Mexico is?

Do you happen where from Germany these people came from? I could hardly imagine anyone from Saxony (and Bavaria?) not knowing where the Czech Republic is, but I actually can imagine this from people coming from places further West.

[Theodisce]

Few months ago I had a 20 minutes conversation with an Italian guy from the South. When he realized Italian wasn't my native language he made an assumption that my girlfriend was Italian. When I explained that this was not the case he asked me: then why are you learning Italian? He was visibly puzzled that someone would ever learn his native language for reasons other than being in a relationship with a native speaker.

[tarvos]

Not everyone memorizes the atlas these days.

[Cavesa]

No suprise. I few young Germans asked me "where is the Czech Republic?"

That sounds pretty remarkable to me; I certainly hope it's not representative. Wouldn't that be kind of like someone from California not knowing where Mexico is?

Do you happen where from Germany these people came from? I could hardly imagine anyone from Saxony (and Bavaria?) not knowing where the Czech Republic is, but I actually can imagine this from people coming from places further West.

No, I don't know. But it was not such a surprise. People in the western european countries simply don't care at all. And they act surprised, when the countries "not worth knowing" are not that eager to "cooperate" in such unequal conditions. I suppose people near the borders would know, but why should there be any difference? Does a french from Bretagne ask "Where is the Switzerland?"

Europe would be totally different, if at least 5% of any country's population would know the language of each of the neighbouring countries. And if people regularily visiting a country would actually bother learning at least the basics of the language and looking further than 100m away from their hotel.

It is not just between the countries at the opposite sides of the former Iron Curtain. How comes a German speaking patient has to use broken English in a french hospital, as noone in the whole department speaks it? The same is true about Spanish and Italian, even though the similarities help there. Arabic is a special case. It is a neighbouring language in a sense, even if we do not take immigrants into it (which becomes less and less possible). France was present in the north african countries for a long time, the relationships are still very strong. But my classmates from bilingual families had very weak knowledge of their dialect of Arabic, not enough to communicate efficiently with a patient.

That looked like an underrated language. Arabic in the bilingual families.

Not everyone memorizes the atlas these days.

Do you need to memorize the atlas to know what countries does yours have borders with?

[tarvos]

No, I was being cynical.

[PeterMollenburg]

No, I was being cynical.

That wasn’t clear.

[basica]

No, I was being cynical.

That wasn’t clear.

Probably due to tarvos' laconic style I too didn't pick up on it at first FWIW.

EDIT: missed a couple words there.

[nooj]

I think Cavesa you might like a thread that I put up before where we brought up some of the same issues you discuss here. Some of what you say about how immigrants (English speaking expats) don't learn the language of the place after 20 years, although extreme, probably has to do with the fact that even within the country they are living, they underrate the language, because they have somehow found a way to survive and even thrive without learning the language. They might learn the basics of how to shop at a supermarket, but trust me that they would learn it to a high level if it was mandatory to find a job, to eat, to not freeze to death. English is one of those languages that unfortunately allow you to not freeze to death pretty much anywhere in Europe, but it is not alone.

Many French immigrants (even people who stay for a couple of years) don't bother learning any other language in Gabon or in Senegal or in Mali or in the Ivory Coast. Heck, in Brussels, many Francophones don't really care about learning Dutch, even though it is supposed to be bilingual. In this respect I agree that we can all show a little bit of compassion for the people we live with by learning their languages.

From what I have seen both in the Czech Republic and in France, this is an issue with a part of the immigrants.

Immigrants of the second generation generally speak the language of the place as a native language. I've never met a French person of Moroccan, Algerian, Tunisian descent or a Dutch person of Moroccan descent who does not speak French or Dutch, perfectly.

Most immigrants of the first generation also learn the language very, very well.

[aokoye]

Not everyone memorizes the atlas these days.

I'd like to think that most people know what countries border the ones they live in. It doesn't take memorizing an atlas.

And yes, I realize I could be said to have some sort of odd geographic privilege in that the US only borders two countries, however I was easily able to memorize the countries that bordered Austria when I lived there and I can put quite a number of the US states on a map (including the ones that I have never lived near). That's not because I'm some sort of extraordinary human.