Whose/who's and other homophones in English

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Josquin
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Re: Grammatical Cases: Why are they considered so hard?

Postby Josquin » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:18 pm

Okay, as the correct pronunciation of "who's" has been confirmed several times now, I give in! I simply made a mistake, probably due to interferences from my native German. Can we end this discussion now and get back on topic?

While it maybe true that "whose" is mainly a spelling convention, it may also be noted that other pronouns in English behave similarly, cf. "his", "hers", and "its", neither of which has the regular apostrophized s of the noun declension.

To my mind, distinguishing "its" from "it's" is much more difficult than "whose" from "who's", but maybe that's just me.
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Re: Grammatical Cases: Why are they considered so hard?

Postby aaleks » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:20 pm

vonPeterhof wrote:but I'm pretty sure that "who's" and "whose" always sounded the same to me.

Recently I was writing something and couldn't recall how the word "whose" is spelled because these two words sound the same to me. But being a non-native speaker I knew that it's two differently spelled words, so I just rephrased that sentence :D .
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Re: Grammatical Cases: Why are they considered so hard?

Postby Xmmm » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:17 am

Speakeasy wrote:
Josquin wrote:
Serpent wrote: Well, in modern English it's simply a spelling convention. And one that's not very intuitive for native speakers.
It's not really only a spelling convention. "Who's" is pronounced [hu:s], while "whose" is pronounced [hu:z]. The spelling reflects the pronunciation.
As I am now seventy years of age, I can no longer say what "modern" English pronunciation is. Nevertheless, I still have vivid memories of how my parents, both of whom were raised in England, would bore into my pre-school, barely-receptive, and very confused little head their notions of proper pronunciation (all of my friends used to swear that my parents spoke with funny accents but, to me, they just sounded like mum and dad). Many of my parents' lessons were reinforced during my earliest years in Elementary School. Now then, ...

I do not recall anyone ever mentioning to me a difference in the pronunciation between "who's" and "whose" in what-I-would-call Standard English-Canadian (as I once knew it), not even my parents. However, I still remember being taught to emphasize the very slight differences in pronunciation of "their", "there", "there're", and "they're", a distinction that seems to no longer exist.


Their there they're. All same
Who's whose. Totally same
Mary marry merry. Same, of course.

Since the 1970s at least on the west coast. And the only people who dispute it are weird people who have moved west despite everything apparently being better in the place which they left. These are the people who pronounce 'dude' as dood instead of using a Scandinavian vowel.
Last edited by Xmmm on Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Grammatical Cases: Why are they considered so hard?

Postby smallwhite » Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:28 am

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Re: Grammatical Cases: Why are they considered so hard?

Postby Speakeasy » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:39 am

Xmmm wrote: Their there they're. All same
Who's whose. Totally same
Mary marry merry. Same, of course.
I accept the who's/whose pair. As to the others, you have just cause to report back to the educators of your youth armed with the complaint that they failed to prepare you for a few of the subtle, but important, distinctions of English pronunciation. Sniff, sniff! :D
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Re: Grammatical Cases: Why are they considered so hard?

Postby Josquin » Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:49 am


Yeah, I think we got it now... :roll:
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Re: Grammatical Cases: Why are they considered so hard?

Postby tastyonions » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:28 pm

"Mary" and "merry" are the same for me, but "marry" is different (/ˈmæɹi/ rather than /ˈmɛɹi/).

My parents, despite having mostly a "standard" American accent, did leave me with a few east coast peculiarities. Their accents are extremely "watered down" compared to those of my grandparents.

Mary-merry-marry merger map (apparently 57% of the country has the complete merger): http://www4.uwm.edu/FLL/linguistics/dia ... /q_15.html
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Re: Whose/who's and other homophones in English

Postby Elenia » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:55 pm

The only one of the 'their'-'there'-'they're' trilogy that sounds different to me is 'they're'. I still mix it up when writing (pretty much every single time) but find that it's very easy to spot on a read through. 'There're' is not something I've ever associated with the other three, and have never mixed it up. It's also something that crops up very rarely when I'm writing.

The mistake I see most often is 'your' and 'you're'. To me, they both sound very different. I make this mistake sometimes myself, and feel as frustrated as when I see other people make it. A lot of people I know don't even seem to notice it, although maybe we're all just too polite and English.

EDIT to add that 'Mary', 'marry' and 'merry' all sound different to me. Mary has a long vowel and a short r, where as 'marry' and 'merry' are the opposite. Perhaps because the vowels are shorter in the variant of English I speak, the difference is more noticeable?
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Re: Grammatical Cases: Why are they considered so hard?

Postby gsbod » Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:14 pm

Josquin wrote:To my mind, distinguishing "its" from "it's" is much more difficult than "whose" from "who's", but maybe that's just me.


I'm a native British English speaker and distinguishing it's / its does my head in too. It looks too much like a possessive s that needs an apostrophe. Whose is fine because the extra e is enough for my brain to file it away as a unique word!
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Re: Whose/who's and other homophones in English

Postby peter » Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:13 pm

I remember at school a French tutor tried very hard to get us to hear a difference between "to", "too" and "two". I wasn't convinced then and, apart from one or two special cases, I'm not sure I'm convinced now. :lol:

But "Mary/merry/marry" are three distinct sounds for me. (Must be that Devon air I grew up in.)
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