German language change trend

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yong321
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German language change trend

Postby yong321 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:58 pm

Just found this article

http://www.zeit.de/2016/16/linguistik-d ... he-satzbau
Die deutsche Sprache
Nicht nur der Genitiv stirbt: Die Deutschen sprechen immer schlechter Deutsch. Sie vereinfachen gnadenlos und pfeifen auf korrekten Satzbau
[Not only does the genitive die: the Germans speak ever worse German. They mercilessly simplify and don't give a damn about correct syntax.]

It looks like online media, social networking, TV shows, etc. are making German less pure, but in my opinion, probably easier for foreigners to learn this difficult language. Genetives are replaced with prepositional phrases. Dative and accusative cases are used interchangeably. Of the two opinions on these changes, I'm biased toward welcoming these changes.
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Re: German language change trend

Postby Speakeasy » Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:14 am

Although this development deeply saddens me, I recognize that this unstoppable trend is present in numerous languages. Some observers will be untouched while others will applaud the phenomenon. Nevertheless, your post caused me to recall a chapter of "Blick und Einsicht" by Wolff A. Schmidt wherein he published a list of "Amerikanismen" which he had extracted from an editorial that had appeared in the December, 1977 issue of STERN. Using the few skills and the little technological support at my disposal, I have appended a partial list below. Oh, Goethe, where art thou?
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lichtrausch
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Re: German language change trend

Postby lichtrausch » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:13 am

Speakeasy wrote:Nevertheless, your post caused me to recall a chapter of "Blick und Einsicht" by Wolff A. Schmidt wherein he published a list of "Amerikanismen" which he had extracted from an editorial that had appeared in the December, 1977 issue of STERN. Using the few skills and the little technological support at my disposal, I have appended a partial list below. Oh, Goethe, where art thou?

40 years later, the "good German" version is still more common for about half of those phrases, so Goethe doesn't need to stress out too much.
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Re: German language change trend

Postby Speakeasy » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:32 am

lichtrausch wrote: ... 40 years later, the "good German" version is still more common for about half of those phrases ...
And the other half? And the new ones that have cropped up since then? While I appreciate your encouraging thoughts, they appear to me as just so much "whistling past the graveyard." It's gonna take one mighty big finger to plug the hole in this dike!

whistle past the graveyard - Wiktionary
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whistle_past_the_graveyard

EDITED:
(1) Whistle past the graveyard
(2) Hans Brinker
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DaveBee
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Re: German language change trend

Postby DaveBee » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:40 am

Speakeasy wrote:
lichtrausch wrote: ... 40 years later, the "good German" version is still more common for about half of those phrases ...
And the other half? And the new ones that have cropped up since then? While I appreciate your encouraging thoughts, they appear to me as just so much "whistling past the graveyard." It's gonna take one mighty big finger to plug the hole in this dike!

whistle past the graveyard - Wiktionary
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whistle_past_the_graveyard

EDITED:
(1) Whistle past the graveyard
(2) Hans Brinker
Isn't Standard German a manufactured language anyway? Perhaps the changes are just the old dialects fighting back.
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aokoye
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Re: German language change trend

Postby aokoye » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:29 am

Language changes.

All languages that are alive change. Change is neither good nor bad, it just is. This isn't unique to German and this isn't suddenly a thing because of the internet. I would argue that there are likely some specific changes that are due to online communication, but I don't think it's somehow revolutionary in relation to language change. People have been saying the "our language is getting worse" trope about English since at least Middle English so again, that trope is also not new.
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aokoye
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Re: German language change trend

Postby aokoye » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:15 am

Speakeasy wrote:Although this development deeply saddens me, I recognize that this unstoppable trend is present in numerous languages.

If by "numerous" you mean all languages that currently have speakers then I agree with the last clause of what I quoted.
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anamsc
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Re: German language change trend

Postby anamsc » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:52 am

Speakeasy wrote:Although this development deeply saddens me, I recognize that this unstoppable trend is present in numerous languages. Some observers will be untouched while others will applaud the phenomenon. Nevertheless, your post caused me to recall a chapter of "Blick und Einsicht" by Wolff A. Schmidt wherein he published a list of "Amerikanismen" which he had extracted from an editorial that had appeared in the December, 1977 issue of STERN. Using the few skills and the little technological support at my disposal, I have appended a partial list below. Oh, Goethe, where art thou?


The changes mentioned by the OP most likely have nothing to do with English influence. I'm not sure what this reference to loanwords has to do with anything. Can you elaborate why German grammatical changes sadden you deeply? And when you say this is an "unstoppable trend in numerous languages", do you mean these sorts of blurring of case distinctions, or language change in general?
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Re: German language change trend

Postby Speakeasy » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:58 am

aokoye wrote: ... All languages that are alive change. Change is neither good nor bad, it just is...
Speakeasy wrote: ... I recognize that this unstoppable trend is present in numerous languages. Some observers will be untouched while others will applaud the phenomenon...
So, we agree ... with the exception that I was touched whereas you were not.

Speakeasy wrote: ... Oh, Goethe, where art thou?
This was meant as the simultaneous expression of sorrow at the loss of a level of language that is both more articulate and more expressive (which I admit is a matter of perception and taste) and the deliberate use of irony (where art thou?) to recognize that the English language, too, has changed, that it continues to change, and that it will likely not cease doing so. One could add: (linguistic) resistance is futile.
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aokoye
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Re: German language change trend

Postby aokoye » Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:25 am

Speakeasy wrote:
aokoye wrote: ... All languages that are alive change. Change is neither good nor bad, it just is...
Speakeasy wrote: ... I recognize that this unstoppable trend is present in numerous languages. Some observers will be untouched while others will applaud the phenomenon...
So, we agree ... with the exception that I was touched whereas you were not.

We agree that it happens to all languages, however it appears that we have at least a few different reactions to it. If anything I really like language change for a lot of reasons. I don't disagree that it, in your words, deeply saddens you however.
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