Just found this article
http://www.zeit.de/2016/16/linguistik-d ... he-satzbau
Die deutsche Sprache
Nicht nur der Genitiv stirbt: Die Deutschen sprechen immer schlechter Deutsch. Sie vereinfachen gnadenlos und pfeifen auf korrekten Satzbau
[Not only does the genitive die: the Germans speak ever worse German. They mercilessly simplify and don't give a damn about correct syntax.]
It looks like online media, social networking, TV shows, etc. are making German less pure, but in my opinion, probably easier for foreigners to learn this difficult language. Genetives are replaced with prepositional phrases. Dative and accusative cases are used interchangeably. Of the two opinions on these changes, I'm biased toward welcoming these changes.
German language change trend
-
- Orange Belt
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:42 am
- Location: Texas
- Languages: English, Chinese. Spanish, French, Italian, German, reading comprehension only.
- Language Log: http://yong321.freeshell.org/misc.html#lang
- x 140
- Contact:
-
- x 7660
Re: German language change trend
Although this development deeply saddens me, I recognize that this unstoppable trend is present in numerous languages. Some observers will be untouched while others will applaud the phenomenon. Nevertheless, your post caused me to recall a chapter of "Blick und Einsicht" by Wolff A. Schmidt wherein he published a list of "Amerikanismen" which he had extracted from an editorial that had appeared in the December, 1977 issue of STERN. Using the few skills and the little technological support at my disposal, I have appended a partial list below. Oh, Goethe, where art thou?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
7 x
-
- Blue Belt
- Posts: 519
- Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:21 pm
- Languages: English (N), German, Japanese, Mandarin, Korean
- x 1409
Re: German language change trend
Speakeasy wrote:Nevertheless, your post caused me to recall a chapter of "Blick und Einsicht" by Wolff A. Schmidt wherein he published a list of "Amerikanismen" which he had extracted from an editorial that had appeared in the December, 1977 issue of STERN. Using the few skills and the little technological support at my disposal, I have appended a partial list below. Oh, Goethe, where art thou?
40 years later, the "good German" version is still more common for about half of those phrases, so Goethe doesn't need to stress out too much.
5 x
-
- x 7660
Re: German language change trend
And the other half? And the new ones that have cropped up since then? While I appreciate your encouraging thoughts, they appear to me as just so much "whistling past the graveyard." It's gonna take one mighty big finger to plug the hole in this dike!lichtrausch wrote: ... 40 years later, the "good German" version is still more common for about half of those phrases ...
whistle past the graveyard - Wiktionary
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whistle_past_the_graveyard
EDITED:
(1) Whistle past the graveyard
(2) Hans Brinker
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1 x
-
- Blue Belt
- Posts: 952
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:49 pm
- Location: UK
- Languages: English (native). French (studying).
- Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7466
- x 1386
Re: German language change trend
Isn't Standard German a manufactured language anyway? Perhaps the changes are just the old dialects fighting back.Speakeasy wrote:And the other half? And the new ones that have cropped up since then? While I appreciate your encouraging thoughts, they appear to me as just so much "whistling past the graveyard." It's gonna take one mighty big finger to plug the hole in this dike!lichtrausch wrote: ... 40 years later, the "good German" version is still more common for about half of those phrases ...
whistle past the graveyard - Wiktionary
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whistle_past_the_graveyard
EDITED:
(1) Whistle past the graveyard
(2) Hans Brinker
1 x
- aokoye
- Black Belt - 1st Dan
- Posts: 1818
- Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:14 pm
- Location: Portland, OR
- Languages: English (N), German (~C1), French (Intermediate), Japanese (N4), Swedish (beginner), Dutch (A2)
- Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=19262
- x 3310
- Contact:
Re: German language change trend
Language changes.
All languages that are alive change. Change is neither good nor bad, it just is. This isn't unique to German and this isn't suddenly a thing because of the internet. I would argue that there are likely some specific changes that are due to online communication, but I don't think it's somehow revolutionary in relation to language change. People have been saying the "our language is getting worse" trope about English since at least Middle English so again, that trope is also not new.
All languages that are alive change. Change is neither good nor bad, it just is. This isn't unique to German and this isn't suddenly a thing because of the internet. I would argue that there are likely some specific changes that are due to online communication, but I don't think it's somehow revolutionary in relation to language change. People have been saying the "our language is getting worse" trope about English since at least Middle English so again, that trope is also not new.
6 x
Prefered gender pronouns: Masculine
- aokoye
- Black Belt - 1st Dan
- Posts: 1818
- Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:14 pm
- Location: Portland, OR
- Languages: English (N), German (~C1), French (Intermediate), Japanese (N4), Swedish (beginner), Dutch (A2)
- Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=19262
- x 3310
- Contact:
Re: German language change trend
Speakeasy wrote:Although this development deeply saddens me, I recognize that this unstoppable trend is present in numerous languages.
If by "numerous" you mean all languages that currently have speakers then I agree with the last clause of what I quoted.
2 x
Prefered gender pronouns: Masculine
-
- Yellow Belt
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:39 am
- Location: UK
- Languages: English, español, català, français, Deutsch
Learning: italiano, (Malti, ру́сский) - x 121
Re: German language change trend
Speakeasy wrote:Although this development deeply saddens me, I recognize that this unstoppable trend is present in numerous languages. Some observers will be untouched while others will applaud the phenomenon. Nevertheless, your post caused me to recall a chapter of "Blick und Einsicht" by Wolff A. Schmidt wherein he published a list of "Amerikanismen" which he had extracted from an editorial that had appeared in the December, 1977 issue of STERN. Using the few skills and the little technological support at my disposal, I have appended a partial list below. Oh, Goethe, where art thou?
The changes mentioned by the OP most likely have nothing to do with English influence. I'm not sure what this reference to loanwords has to do with anything. Can you elaborate why German grammatical changes sadden you deeply? And when you say this is an "unstoppable trend in numerous languages", do you mean these sorts of blurring of case distinctions, or language change in general?
1 x
-
- x 7660
Re: German language change trend
aokoye wrote: ... All languages that are alive change. Change is neither good nor bad, it just is...
So, we agree ... with the exception that I was touched whereas you were not.Speakeasy wrote: ... I recognize that this unstoppable trend is present in numerous languages. Some observers will be untouched while others will applaud the phenomenon...
This was meant as the simultaneous expression of sorrow at the loss of a level of language that is both more articulate and more expressive (which I admit is a matter of perception and taste) and the deliberate use of irony (where art thou?) to recognize that the English language, too, has changed, that it continues to change, and that it will likely not cease doing so. One could add: (linguistic) resistance is futile.Speakeasy wrote: ... Oh, Goethe, where art thou?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
2 x
- aokoye
- Black Belt - 1st Dan
- Posts: 1818
- Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:14 pm
- Location: Portland, OR
- Languages: English (N), German (~C1), French (Intermediate), Japanese (N4), Swedish (beginner), Dutch (A2)
- Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=19262
- x 3310
- Contact:
Re: German language change trend
Speakeasy wrote:aokoye wrote: ... All languages that are alive change. Change is neither good nor bad, it just is...So, we agree ... with the exception that I was touched whereas you were not.Speakeasy wrote: ... I recognize that this unstoppable trend is present in numerous languages. Some observers will be untouched while others will applaud the phenomenon...
We agree that it happens to all languages, however it appears that we have at least a few different reactions to it. If anything I really like language change for a lot of reasons. I don't disagree that it, in your words, deeply saddens you however.
2 x
Prefered gender pronouns: Masculine
Return to “General Language Discussion”
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests