Duolingo Japanese

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bpasseri
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Duolingo Japanese

Postby bpasseri » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:43 pm

What are peoples' opinions on Duolingo Japanese? I started it and am really not a fan. I don't really think Japanese is the kind of language that, for a native English speaker at least, one can learn without any kind of explanation. I know a somewhat limited amount about Japanese sentence structure, but even with that I find it to be overwhelmingly difficult, I can't imagine someone trying it with absolutely no prior exposure to Japanese. Shouldn't it at least explain word order and the main affixes like -wa, -ga, etc? The whole thing just seems extremely messy and not well thought out... I definitely wouldn't recommend it.
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Re: Duolingo Japanese

Postby Brun Ugle » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:07 pm

The thing with Duolingo is that you can only see the grammar notes on the web, not on the app. Since Japanese is still only available on the app, we don't know how good the notes may be.
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Re: Duolingo Japanese

Postby zenmonkey » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:13 pm

Duolingo isn't really thought out for "opaque languages". The method for learning a writing system or learning to read requires a tools that are significantly different from the usual Duolingo format. Duolingo for Hebrew is incredibly difficult for the beginner and I too am not too happy with it for that.

It would not be my initial core focus for these languages.
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Re: Duolingo Japanese

Postby Cainntear » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:38 pm

Brun Ugle wrote:The thing with Duolingo is that you can only see the grammar notes on the web, not on the app. Since Japanese is still only available on the app, we don't know how good the notes may be.

I suspect the reason it's only available in the app is because the notes don't exist.

We already know Duolingo sees the webpage as less important than the app, and the app has no explanations, so we can assume Von Ahn doesn't really think the explanations are any use... which I think is true, but more down to presentation than anything. They present the rules without ensuring you get any practice of the rules right after seeing them, so you forget them.
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Re: Duolingo Japanese

Postby Cainntear » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:46 pm

zenmonkey wrote:Duolingo isn't really thought out for "opaque languages".

This is basically true of every name-brand method.

Assimil, for instance was built on a structure that was relatively efficient and effective at teaching French people the (very similar) languages of their nearest neighbours -- English, German, Italian and Spanish. But when I tried using the Basque one... gah... rubbish. Too many unfamiliar word forms in each lesson, making each text reeeaaaally difficult. They tried to make it easier by drilling some basics, but that didn't help, because the Assimil method isn't built for drilling.
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Re: Duolingo Japanese

Postby zenmonkey » Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:22 pm

Cainntear wrote:
zenmonkey wrote:Duolingo isn't really thought out for "opaque languages".

This is basically true of every name-brand method.

Assimil, for instance was built on a structure that was relatively efficient and effective at teaching French people the (very similar) languages of their nearest neighbours -- English, German, Italian and Spanish. But when I tried using the Basque one... gah... rubbish. Too many unfamiliar word forms in each lesson, making each text reeeaaaally difficult. They tried to make it easier by drilling some basics, but that didn't help, because the Assimil method isn't built for drilling.


The initial Hebrew one is incredibly difficult but the newer version builds up much more slowly and is well better thought out. I have both and one I can use. The other one leaves me: :shock:
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Re: Duolingo Japanese

Postby blaurebell » Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:44 pm

Cainntear wrote:Assimil, for instance was built on a structure that was relatively efficient and effective at teaching French people the (very similar) languages of their nearest neighbours -- English, German, Italian and Spanish. But when I tried using the Basque one... gah... rubbish. Too many unfamiliar word forms in each lesson, making each text reeeaaaally difficult. They tried to make it easier by drilling some basics, but that didn't help, because the Assimil method isn't built for drilling.


I think Assimil Le Russe also would have been quite tough for me without any prior knowledge. And the one I used was much more "dumbed down" than the older two versions! But then, all Russian courses are tough and at least Assimil didn't make me want to tear my hair out or bore me to tears, which was the effect of every other course I tried, including the Duolingo one. I think with such languages only multiple angles of attack and a sort of iterative approach have a chance of success. Probably why most people not only give up on the respective Assimil or Duolingo courses, but those kind of languages altogether. I also found that using Assimil and Duolingo together makes both a little easier.
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Re: Duolingo Japanese

Postby Xmmm » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:51 pm

blaurebell wrote:
Cainntear wrote:Assimil, for instance was built on a structure that was relatively efficient and effective at teaching French people the (very similar) languages of their nearest neighbours -- English, German, Italian and Spanish. But when I tried using the Basque one... gah... rubbish. Too many unfamiliar word forms in each lesson, making each text reeeaaaally difficult. They tried to make it easier by drilling some basics, but that didn't help, because the Assimil method isn't built for drilling.


I think Assimil Le Russe also would have been quite tough for me without any prior knowledge. And the one I used was much more "dumbed down" than the older two versions! But then, all Russian courses are tough and at least Assimil didn't make me want to tear my hair out or bore me to tears, which was the effect of every other course I tried, including the Duolingo one. I think with such languages only multiple angles of attack and a sort of iterative approach have a chance of success. Probably why most people not only give up on the respective Assimil or Duolingo courses, but those kind of languages altogether. I also found that using Assimil and Duolingo together makes both a little easier.


I used assimil for russian with absolutely no prior knowledge and found it to be a good, gentle intro well worth the time. Duolingo was much less friendly.
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