LesRonces wrote:Simply not true of western Europe, which is the place i was referring to.
Excuse me, but I don't see where this comes from. Not only Zenmonkey does live in western europe, so does blaurebell and most other posters on this thread. But central europe is not different from western europe much, and you are actually proving my point that it would be in general beneficial to all europeans (and not only) to be more interested in other countries.
And I am not talking only about the Czech Republic, since that doesn't seem like a relevant example to you. My experience from longer stays in France and Spain, between 20 and 30 short stays in half Europe, and talking to quite a lot of various foreingers even here, all that confirms it.
I had a few very interesting conversations about this in France and it is something I am interested in and always read about in the news. Their system tries to give chance to everyone, including poor people. It does, to some extent. And when you speak to someone richer, it seems like what you say is true, and education opportunities are pure égalité. But speak to someone from the poorer background, I was lucky to meet a great girl, medicine student, who was a great example as well as a great person. Coming from a poorer family, where education is not on top of priorities, has tremendous consequences. Not only she didn't have much of support (not only financial), her family was discouraging her and also draining her energy, people she knew outside school were not exactly a study group either. She had trouble with her studies based on the background she came from.
She confirmed that the differences were very real in France. If that is not a western european country, I don't know what is. I don't know, whether French is on your list, LesRonces. If it is, read LeMonde sometimes. It is a problem so obvious the country cannot ignore it and is trying to look for solutions, which mostly fail. But just look at the market with study support. Look at the meritocracy system, which is highly competitive and you simply want all the advantage you can get, and that advantage costs money.
Yes, you can succeed without extra money, if you are extremely gifted and hardworking. But it is simply much simpler and you are much more likely to succeed, if you can pay for the extra classes and tutors, for the extra preparation courses for exams, for extra books, for internet based resources. If only you could imagine what business grows around medicine studies, but that is just the example I know the best. There are almost no students from poor families at the faculty.
It doesn't matter whether the academic area we are talking about is studying medicine, maths, literature, economy or learning a language. It still applies.
blaurebell wrote:Cavesa wrote:From my experience, it can include a lot of translation to the foreign language, any other types of grammar exercises than just fill ins, and our drilling games were better than standing up endlessly so early in the morning .
You forget that Prussians invented the German school system and they did not believe in fun Besides, competition? Trying to get us out of our apathetic slumber was no mean feat and was usually achieved by a whole lot of shouting and threats, rather than any sort of "psychological" method of trying to motivate us. But then, I'm mainly speaking about East Germany here, in the 90s we didn't have an awful lot of good teachers left and they weren't hiring any new ones either because like 25% of the population left from one year to the next. And of course the teachers had a sort of "no future" attitude, because any school might close due to lack of students and then they would be unemployed without the possibility of finding a new job. In a working class town that turned into an unemployed town from one year to the next! Bleak times, bleak times. Sounds like in your parts you weren't hit so hard?
I totally know what you mean with the communicative approach ... my Spanish still suffers from that malady, although I'm now trying to counteract that with grammar grammar and more grammar.
Yes, Prussians were an interesting element in central Europe. It is pretty clear they were doing lots of things right. Even though shouting is something horrible in language classes. And often not that efficient either.
Hit in what way?
Overall amount and quality of teachers was horrible. Back then, it was even not uncommon for Russian teachers to just switch to English and be one lesson before their students. Considering the fact they had often been bad even at Russian teaching, imagine their English teaching skills. Language learning before the revolution was not considered useful by the population (what for, if you cannot get out and the foreign stuff in), it was considered dangerous by the regime, and specifically Russian learning was one of the symbols of the occupation and the whole 40 years taking tragedy, so being bad at it was more a proof of character, than an educational failure.
There were few learning resources, teachers often had to make them, or search wherever possible. Before the internet.
There were very few natives or people with language skills in general. In some ways, the 90's were an era of lots of open possibilities, it was in some ways easier to start something then these days. And despite the fact I am grateful I spent only my childhood on the 90's, one idea would be tempting about it. Back in ninetees, my languages would have gotten me a great job (great for those times and economy), no degree needed, no more skills demanded before starting, no problem with CVs or interviews. You just knew a bit of English or German, and you were a star.
No, there was no massive escape of people, because we didn't have anyone waiting for us with open arms and borders this way, we didn't get connected to a well functioning country with close historical ties to us. People are leaving now, and have been for a long time, slowly but steadily. It is getting more and more obvious, healthcare being just one of the most visible areas. Czechs, especially the generation that is now around 50, failed at improving the country enough, missed many chances, and destroyed a lot of others, and failed to change the society enough in certain ways. As a result, this country fails in competition for high quality people for the economy. This still wouldn't be enough for most people who are considering leaving. If it was just about money, everyone would be gone, so people obviously want to stay. But there is simply no future. Promises are being broken, differences between us and the better countries do not get erased, a part of the population actively hates anyone who isn't as lazy as them. And their usual ideas of solution to escape of brains and workers are forbidding people to leave, or making young people more miserable, or attacking the more successful people and demotivating them from activity. It is not about politics, that is just a symptom, it wouldn't work without a part of the population.
This is actually one of the reasons, why foreign language education in public schools is not a priority. Officially it is, ok. But in reality no. The teachers' salaries are horrible, the bureaucracy always growing, the horrible reformed Maturita (highschool final exam) is a huge waste of money that damages good quality schools much more than it helps the bad ones. And just the pure idea of improving the whole school system by changing the final exam is illogical. And I don't even remember how many ministers we've had, all of them wanting to entry history books and most of them with no relevant experience.
The only language that is being promoted all the time, apart from occasional newspaper articles about job finding, is English. Because the English speaking countries are quite far and not that easy to get to, I'd guess. Not knowing other european languages, especially German, is for many people the main reason to stay, despite the conditions. Living in Prague is great, in many ways better than in most similarly sized european cities. And there is basically no unemployment in the city, and the salaries are a little bit less horrible than in the rest of the country. But look at the small towns in poor regions by the German border.
One could say, that those poor people are to blame, that they should work on themselves and get out. Well, they should. But I don't think we can fully blame someone who has no money for guided privated education, and at the same time is definitely not too academically gifted to make it on their own.