Mandarin: Beijing vs Taiwan

[AML]

I'm curious about Mandarin Chinese as well as fairly ignorant about it, despite some googling. I'd appreciate your insight into these basic questions.

How different are the Mandarin variants in Beijing and Taiwan, and in what ways do they most differ?

Is one of them viewed as more prestigious?

Do their accents differ greatly?

If a Mandarin learner expected to spend half of her time in Taiwan and the other half in Beijing, would you suggest learning one variant over the other?

Thank you.

[tarvos]

I'm curious about Mandarin Chinese as well as fairly ignorant about it, despite some googling. I'd appreciate your insight into these basic questions.

How different are the Mandarin variants in Beijing and Taiwan, and in what ways do they most differ?

Are we talking about standard Mandarin or Mandarin with an actual Beijing accent? They are not one and the same thing; the Mandarin spoken in Beijing may differ, depending on whether someone is actually from Beijing or an immigrant to the city.

But let's consider the standards - they are exactly the same, except that in Taiwan, you may hear different words, and some tones change. The accent is noticeably different as well, but accents in Mandarin can vary a lot, so that shouldn't bother you.

If we are talking about true Beijing speech, that's another ball game altogether. It most certainly is a dialect of Mandarin, but the incredibly thick erhuayin and typical accent make Beijing speech quite distinctive - and no one in their right mind would pronounce rén 人 as rénr unless they were an actual Beijinger or from the surrounding area.

Is one of them viewed as more prestigious?

Beijing has the most prestigious accent, but the really thick Beijing drawl would put most people off if they weren't from there. However the thing is that in China accents vary so much (and so do the languages) that you're only guaranteed decent putonghua in Beijing and the northeast, especially because the standard language is based on the Beijing dialect (but by no means synonymous with it). Taiwan, apparently, has an accent that is quite hip. But honestly, it doesn't matter - just learn standard putonghua for now.

Do their accents differ greatly?

Accents differ from village to village, actually, so do the dialects and languages. Many Taiwanese also speak... Taiwanese. It just depends on who you've got in front of you. Is the Beijinger a Beijinger or someone from Hebei who got embroiled in the expansion drift of the Chinese government? Did the Taiwanese you speak to flee from the mainland or did they live there before? Here's the thing - you should ascertain whether they actually speak Mandarin first. If they do, their accents will differ, but Chinese accents differ anyway and it's no different from learning to understand a Londoner, as opposed to, say, a New Yorker. They both speak English. That doesn't mean they use the same words or have the same accent.

If a Mandarin learner expected to spend half of her time in Taiwan and the other half in Beijing, would you suggest learning one variant over the other?

Learn the textbook Putonghua. Keep in mind that Mandarin isn't a first language to all Chinese people either, and for some of them there may be a big difference between what they speak at home and what they speak to you. In both China and Taiwan, you will be understood if you speak Putonghua. In Taiwan you might use different words, but you'll be understood either way, and don't worry too much about the tonal differences, you've got to get the basics right in the beginning and they're not that marked. Besides, the way the Taiwanese learn the phonological system (using zhuyin) is not as easy as just using pinyin, so just go for the textbook way of doing it.

You won't always understand everyone you meet (even in Beijing the accent can be so thick that it makes comprehension difficult), but they will understand you, which is what matters. I've spoken to people from many areas of China before and they all understood me just fine, whether they were Shanghainese, Shandongers or Beijing workers. In far-flung areas you may need someone to translate the dialect, perhaps even in big cities like Xi'an.

Thank you.

In short - don't worry about these differences too much. They will become important once you actually have the basics down. If you learn Mandarin in a different area such as Shanghai, and your Mandarin isn't as "pure" - it doesn't matter, you're a foreigner to them anyway. Your foreign accent will stand out more than the few expressions you know (and besides they will just love the fact you bothered to use them. Can't tell you how often that has happened to me). Focus on getting tones and pinyin down first, and then you can figure out the rest.

[leosmith]

If a Mandarin learner expected to spend half of her time in Taiwan and the other half in Beijing, would you suggest learning one variant over the other?

Spoken differences are negligible; the main difference is the writing system imo. Beijing has simplified more than 2000 commonly used characters, Taiwan stayed with the original (traditional) ones. Did simplifying make it easier for westerners to learn? I doubt it, but ymmv. It probably doesn't matter which one you learn first, but you should eventually learn both. I learned both at the same time, but I'm funny that way.

[AML]

Are we talking about standard Mandarin or Mandarin with an actual Beijing accent?

Standard Mandarin.

Learn the textbook Putonghua.

Ok good to know. Learning putonghua isn't like learn Modern Standard Arabic is it, where no one really speaks it? Do people learn putonghua as their native language that they speak with family and friends?

[tarvos]

I've only ever learned that and communicated just fine. Everyone will understand you. Whether they speak such a thing at home depends on some factors:

a) the location you are in in sinophone areas - are you in a Mandarin-speaking place? If you are in the northeast, you may hear more erhuayin, but this isn't an issue; everyone understands 一点 / 一点儿 the same way
b) the family makeup (if partners are from different areas, then they will likely speak Mandarin, because stuff like Shanghainese and Cantonese isn't mutually intelligible)
c) age - younger people are much more likely to be educated in Mandarin and everyone under, say, 40-50 will speak Mandarin well, but maybe with an accent. Younger people are almost conditioned to speak Mandarin instead of dialect nowadays, so you're likely to hear them do so. I've met older people in places like Xi'an though (which is a Mandarin-region area) where they speak a local dialect that is actually almost another language and not mutually intelligible with putonghua; those older people who aren't highly educated are unlikely to speak Mandarin well if at all, but they will likely understand you.

Everyone will try and speak Mandarin (or even English, but most people can't) to you, because they would do that to anyone who isn't from their town. Most of them will succeed. The more dialects are variations of Mandarin, the blurrier that becomes because they're not speaking a different language. I think that in China, that would be 80% of the population minimum. Whether they prefer speaking Mandarin themselves is another matter entirely. But considering the entire Chinese educational system and national media are all putonghua, it should be fine. Local stations may use the local dialect in a few cases (but in places like Beijing you'd still just hear Mandarin with a local accent perhaps).

Bottom line: learn Putonghua first. Everything else is secondary and can come when you speak acceptable Mandarin. I speak okay-ish Mandarin and that means I can delve into all the other variants now, because I understand local people well enough they can explain it to me in Putonghua.

[AML]

Ok, so Putonghua/Guoyu it is.

Thanks for your help.

[tarvos]

Good luck. Mandarin is a lot of fun, but the thing about China is is that it's a huge place that has had loads of time to develop a lot of linguistic varieties - that's why the landscape is so diverse over there. This unification under a national language is strongly encouraged by the Chinese government, partly because no one can communicate with all the dialects and languages floating around, but partly to foster the common Chinese identity as the party wants it. Sadly, this means that diversity is losing out in China big time, and even big players such as Shanghainese are under threat (Mandarin and Cantonese aren't).