zenmonkey wrote:Ani wrote:Ahh yes that one is much better!
I do believe we lose a lot of data on dubs, but I don't think we mis-encode data because the lips are SO far off that it just comes up as -no data-. Dubs are still awesome for what they are.
The thing is, that you may be actively untraining the 'listening eye' in your L2. Dubs are great, just be conscious of how you use them, along with other media (podcasts, audio only) that might effectively reduce your fine tuned listening (which also involves the vision field).
I'll continue to use dubbed material, I'll just try to be conscious of not staring at the speaker's mouth. It might be a minor point, but the demo highlights this aspect of cognitive science that we usually ignore.
I don't know if you meant you-general or me specifically, but I know I rely on visual cues for a huge percentage of my listening even in L1. I have a hard time with phonemic processing in general (and passed it down to at least a couple of my kids, hence the reason we work with the Lindamood-Bell LIPS). I often need to see faces to understand in L1, although my hearing is fine. I just can't make heads or tails of the sounds coming out of people's mouths.
So for me, I am certain I am not "untraining my listening eye" as you put it, because I know both consciously and subconsciously that I need that information.
As far as I can tell, the McGurk Effect doesn't tell us whether people can actually get out of the habit of watching or processing visual cues. I know many people "listen with the eyes" much less in their L1 than I do. I wonder if people who watch speech less could suffer from such a rejection of information in their L2? And then I wonder if dubs could actually teach such a thing. I want to say I doubt it since most of us aren't watching dubs for the majority of our waking hours, and watching mouths move during speech is something you literally do from the day you are born.
And one third musing, I wonder if the McGurk effect could cause more significant problems with dubs into closely related languages. -- perhaps Italian and Spanish -- as I would think mouth movements could occasionally be close enough to trick the eye into continuing to look for language clues when there really are none. Maybe this is more what you were thinking of.
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.