New auxlang: Atlas

[Rodiniye]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I did the math and, from the numbers that Ethnologue has, the languages you've chosen make up around 3.928 billion first language speakers. This is actually very generous because I'm assuming you're not looking at most of the Chinese dialects nor most of the Arabic dialects.
If we go with Wikipedia's tally of L1 and L2 speakers (most of which also comes from a Ethnologue) then we get 5.628 billion speakers of the languages that you're using. That still gives us at least 1.872 billion people (so more than the population of China) who don't speak any of the languages that you've chosen. That's nearly 25% of the world's population (if we go with the idea that there are around 7.5 billion people living in the world right now).

edit: so yes - "most" of the population speaks those languages but it isn't hard by any means to find someone who doesn't. An easy example of this is the issues that hospitals have in California (among other states) have in finding interpreters for people who they think speak spanish but in reality only speak a native Mexican language.

Covering 75% of the world's speakers would be an achievement for a language that only has over 500 roots, considering that the 16 languages in Atlas have pretty much an equal participation in the vocabulary (I would not say that the language is represented if only two or three words were coming from that language).

As I said, it is difficult to establish a system in order to create the vocabulary, but as I said I think the one used by Atlas is fair. It could have been done in other ways but I don't think it would have been a better solution, just a different one.

[Rodiniye]

but when creating an auxlang, you need to take the vocabulary from somewhere.

Personally, I'm curious as to how did you decide against going for an a priori lexicon?

This one follows a formula and all languages have around 30 roots.

One problem I could see with that, is that it's possible (likely?) that 1) some roots will end up being more productive (there'll be more words you can get from them than others); and 2) (especially considering what I just mentioned), they may provide uneven text coverage (i.e., some will occur much more often in a text. For example "the" will cover a much larger part of the average English text than "get", let alone "superficial". So, some roots will be more beneficial to find easier to remember).

1) having roots which are already known by a big/significative part of the population is extremely useful, as those roots can easily be identified, so it reduces the learning time. That is the main reason.

The other reason is that my understanding of an auxlang/international language is that it contains words that are already in use. Same with grammar. Some other systems might be created, but it would not make things easy for learners as it would be probably very different from what they know.

2) Yes, the possibility that some roots are more used than others is there, and it will happen. However, given that words are generated from the 500ish roots, you will see pretty much all of them more often than not, although maybe as part of a compound word.

[zenmonkey]

Nice improvement over the last effort - certainly found the example sentences more accessible. Glad to see you didn't give up.

I would challenge the idea that prepositions must be to the point you have - having less words ma be also much easier to use.
The pen is by the book. The book was (written) by George. Please deliver it by 9.

The prepositional clarity may come from verb or situation or use. There is no need for different prepositions there.

This is a difficult one. Sometimes more is less (or what is the other way around? ). Being an English teacher for a few years, I found out that leaners had more difficulty with those prepositions having lots of meaning (by, in, at, on...) than those with a specific and limited meaning. So that's my experience.

On the other hand, having prepositions with specific meanings helps a lot in word construction. Prepositions can be attached to roots in order to form other words, so it is essential that each preposition has a specific meaning, otherwise the meaning of the new word would not be intuitive.

I hope I have explained myself a bit here

What language have you taught that has lots and lots and lots of unique prepositions with specific meaning that aren't situationally defined?

Sorry, languages do not work that way. Even German with its very large set of prepositions maintains a subset of common and frequently used overlapping prepositions.

[Serpent]

When it comes to prepositions, I do think the English use is overkill The three meanings of "by" are really completely different. Many languages have less overlap than English.

[Rodiniye]

What language have you taught that has lots and lots and lots of unique prepositions with specific meaning that aren't situationally defined?

Sorry, languages do not work that way. Even German with its very large set of prepositions maintains a subset of common and frequently used overlapping prepositions.

English mainly, but I speak a few languages so I have been through the process myself, not as a teacher only.

Languages work how they work, I agree. English could have used "before" instread of "in front of", or "after" instead of "behind". It could have merged "at" and "in" into one, forget about "by". It could have forgotten as well "among/amongst". Why use "since" and "from" at the same time, or "during" and "for" for time?

There are not that many prepositions in Atlas, not more than in other languages. However their use is very defined. Why having meanings crossed when you can have a specific and clear one. Why using "on", "in", "at" for time and "in", "at", "on" (amongst others) for places when you could use "at" for time only (at weekends, at 1998, at 5 o'clock) and "in" for places only ("in the hospital, in the bus station, in the table"). Having less prepositions but more "versatile" could sound amazing and simple, but it turns out that it is not.

Then, as I said earlier on, prepositions are key in completing the meaning for compound words, so it is essential that their use is very well defined, and as I said, that helps the leaners more than what people would expect

[Rodiniye]

I updated the popup dictionary application. It is now the "Atlas Multilingual Dictionary". You can select Atlas >>> English or Atlas >>> Spanish. The dictionary files are also updated to the latest (2017-06-25) version of the Atlas Dictionary.

Here is the zip file for the application: AtlasPopupDictionary.zip

Note for Rodiniye: The dictionary contains duplicate entries for "dake". I assume it is the same word, so in the popup dictionary, I combined the two entries:

English: dake >>> hit, collision

Spanish: dake >>> choque, golpe, colisión

Di esis stelu! - you are a star!

I am a bit useless with computers sometimes, I have downloaded an app for windows but still I cannot open the file. Any suggestions about what program should I use or how can I open it? explanation for dummies please!

Thanks a lot!

[Rodiniye]

When it comes to prepositions, I do think the English use is overkill The three meanings of "by" are really completely different. Many languages have less overlap than English.

Agreed, it gets worse in some languages. Here where I am from, people have been learning English for years and they still make a lot of mistakes when having to choose between "at", "in" or "at" for time, or tend to memorize only one meaning per preposition (the three meanings of "by" are largely unknown by English students I would say, until some level of expertise has been reached).

[tommus]

I am a bit useless with computers sometimes, I have downloaded an app for windows but still I cannot open the file. Any suggestions about what program should I use or how can I open it? explanation for dummies please!

Download the file which is "AtlasPopupDictionary.zip"

Unzip it. This produces one main file "AtlasPopUp.jar", plus a directory called "files". Inside that directory are the two text file dictionaries.

Assuming your computer is Java-enabled, just double-click on "AtlasPopUp.jar".

If your computer is not Java-enabled, you can download and install the Java Runtime Environment from here:

Download Java Runtime Environment

Have others been able to install and use the Atlas Popup Dictionary successfully?

[aokoye]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I did the math and, from the numbers that Ethnologue has, the languages you've chosen make up around 3.928 billion first language speakers. This is actually very generous because I'm assuming you're not looking at most of the Chinese dialects nor most of the Arabic dialects.
If we go with Wikipedia's tally of L1 and L2 speakers (most of which also comes from a Ethnologue) then we get 5.628 billion speakers of the languages that you're using. That still gives us at least 1.872 billion people (so more than the population of China) who don't speak any of the languages that you've chosen. That's nearly 25% of the world's population (if we go with the idea that there are around 7.5 billion people living in the world right now).

edit: so yes - "most" of the population speaks those languages but it isn't hard by any means to find someone who doesn't. An easy example of this is the issues that hospitals have in California (among other states) have in finding interpreters for people who they think speak spanish but in reality only speak a native Mexican language.

Covering 75% of the world's speakers would be an achievement for a language that only has over 500 roots, considering that the 16 languages in Atlas have pretty much an equal participation in the vocabulary (I would not say that the language is represented if only two or three words were coming from that language).

As I said, it is difficult to establish a system in order to create the vocabulary, but as I said I think the one used by Atlas is fair. It could have been done in other ways but I don't think it would have been a better solution, just a different one.

Honestly as long as you don't go down the path of, "it's hard to find people who don't speak a language that is represented in Atlas" route or similar such routes I won't take major exception. It's when you, and others in your position, start doing that where my hackles start to raise.
I think Cainntear also had a really good point when they said that they aren't worried about speakers of the world's major languages, it's the smaller and minority languages (and their speakers) that need to be brought to attention. This, ultimately, is why I'm not exactly worried about any conlang, there's just no way that I can see for it to go about killing other languages. It speakers of Wu, Frisian, various Celtic languages, all (or almost all) of the indigenous languages in the world, and so on that I worry about when other, larger and more powerful, languages come to the fore and stay there.

[Cainntear]

Covering 75% of the world's speakers would be an achievement for a language that only has over 500 roots, considering that the 16 languages in Atlas have pretty much an equal participation in the vocabulary (I would not say that the language is represented if only two or three words were coming from that language).

As I said, it is difficult to establish a system in order to create the vocabulary, but as I said I think the one used by Atlas is fair. It could have been done in other ways but I don't think it would have been a better solution, just a different one.

In an of itself, there is nothing wrong with your manner of choosing vocabulary. As aokoye says, it's the claim of "representativeness" or "fairness" that causes the problem.

Why should one person be less equal than others, simply because they're one of a population of thousands instead of millions? Equality must look at everyone as an individual, not as a member of a group of a given size. Hell, as a Spaniard yourself, you surely understand that many Basque speakers would resent the idea that Romance vocabulary somehow represents them...?