A language learners’ forum

Henkkles wrote:I refuse to respond to your argument for it conflates things that arise naturally with things that are artificial; the difference is too fundamental for me to think of an answer.

Perfectly fair, no offence taken and no spite or negativity inferred. I used books as an example as they're the only thing that I like as much as languages - but I was aware even as I wrote that it wasn't a perfect example for this precise reason.

I'm definitely not going to study Ryukyuan languages or Coptic, so Japanese and ancient Egyptian are not in my list in any case.

* I have no clue where Copticland is situated in a geographic map. My best guess is in an area where a lot of other languages of major political importance are spoken or maybe Copticland is used just for religious purposes. edit: just checked, I had a good guess.

Coptic is today spoken liturgically in the Coptic Orthodox and Coptic Catholic Church (along with Modern Standard Arabic). The language is spoken only in Egypt and historically has had little influence outside of the territory, except for monasteries located in Nubia.

From Wikipedia.

My favorite languages are in families where a lot of other very important languages are spoken, so that I can learn the whole family and actually have an opportunity in life to use it.

Tristano wrote:I can make a list now and discover in few years that I changed my mind but I try:
before I get assaulted: all the languages are beautiful and no language is less than others.
- Japanese, it's true that I contemplated learning it because of a travel in Japan, but please, nope. It has all the characteristics of a language that I hate: language isolate, 3 alphabets, one of which is not even an alphabet but a set of ideograms, so weird and alien and strictly culture dependent that if you don't live in the country you basically have no chance whatsoever.
- native american languages. I'm not American and I will never meet a Navajo person or read Navajo books (do they even exist)? Plus they're difficult as fuck.
- languages that are extremly endangered and extremely isolated.
- Basque. How was the thing? The devil created Basque and then tried to get fluent in it, failing big times? Or was it Japanese?
- Most of the conlangs, especially the ones that have too less in common with natural languages, because they're not useful as a bridge. Esperanto and perhaps Slovio can be interesting for me (but I don't have to speak them or learn how to write them). Yes, I had some fun with Toki Pona.
- Judeo Español and Yiddish, unless I studied Hebrew first.
- Faroese, unless I studied Icelandic first.
- Urdu, unless I studied Hindi first.
- Thai and Vietnamese don't score particularly high in my language wishlist, but I reserve myself the right to change idea.
- Turkic languages written with the Arabic alphabet, although I can always learn all the others first and those only by listening.
- Dialects. A waste of time unless I live in the area where the dialect is spoken - and often it is a big waste of time anyway.
- Neapolitan dialect. If I have to decide which languages sounds more lovely between Klingon and Neapolitan, I would certainly vouch for Klingon.
- Frisian. Friesland doesn't exist: it's an invention of the communists. Unless they send me in Frisia to work
- Limburgish: a big who cares. Same for Luxembourgish.
- Swiss German: bleah.
- Romansh: a huge who cares.
- Ancient Egyptian and all the extinct languages that don't have any related modern language.

I'm sure there are many more to add, but this is a short representative list.

Funny to reread this message of mine of 4 years ago.
I didn't change my mind, though I notice how much softer of a person I have become.
Disclaimer "all languages are beautiful" and then a long list of "this language sucks". I don't recognize myself anymore.

Tristano wrote:Funny to reread this message of mine of 4 years ago.
I didn't change my mind, though I notice how much softer of a person I have become.
Disclaimer "all languages are beautiful" and then a long list of "this language sucks". I don't recognize myself anymore.

I learned a while back to avoid threads like this one because they tempt you to say things that end up enduring on the internet longer than you ever would have wanted them to. That doesn't mean I've been 100% faithful to that but I do try.

That said:

English. Oh great cosmos, why?

Languages I've never had any interest in learning? Many.

Languages I would happily accept a magical ability to know if a genie offered it to me after rubbing a lamp I found lost in an Arabian cave? All.

I used to paraphrase Will Rogers and say "I never met a language I didn't want to learn." Then I heard Somali and Afar. No thanks.

This thread is pretty interesting. Made me think a little. Was pretty surprised to see some people don't want to learn Mandarin or Russian. But then, after little bit of contemplation I realised I am in the same boat. This is all subjective, I hope nobody takes offence. I know a lot of people hold sentimental value for languages, and sometimes choice of language is not purely rational.

For me the languages I am interested in share certain characteristics. A major language which is useful, has rich literary tradition, and
of course personal reasons. Everything which falls outside of it, every other language which does follow these characteristics are not interesting for me. Moreover, life is too short to be going crazy all over languages, and I don't want to spread myself too thin. I want to be good at least at some languages than being not good at many languages. At the end of the day, not everybody is Arguelles.

I have zero interest in other slavic languages besides Russian. Granted I did not have to work hard to learn Russian, but I do appreciate it greatly. Unless you have personal reason to learn something like Polish or Czech, I don't understand why anybody would choose them over Russian. You put the same effort, but get less value. I could understand if you had/want to live in Poland, or your heritage, partner or family was Polish. Russian speaking world is a microcosm of its own. It is very interesting culture. With other slavic languages basically you get that country plus maybe small community somewhere else.

For some reason, I have zero interest in Hindi/Urdu or any languages from the Indian sub-continent. I don't find them appealing at all, at least for the time being.

I don't find any of the construct/artificial languages appealing at all. I don't see any intrinsic value to it.

I commend people who try to keep some of the dying languages alive, by being enthused putting in effort learning Native American languages, Celtic languages, regional languages. But personally, I don't see myself ever needing them. I heard a language like Navajo is special, but I am not a linguist, so it has no value to me. I don't plan on living in Andes, why would I need Quechua. I know it is related to pre-Columbian culture, but I doubt there is much work on it.

Bantu languages. Why?! Will never need it. Although Swahili does tingle mild interest.

Finno-Ugric languages. Difficult does not make it useful. I can live without it. If you want to challenge yourself learn Russian, or Mandarin, or Japanese, or Arabic. Finnish or Hungarian? or even minor like Komi? No thank you.

lemme_try wrote:This thread is pretty interesting. Made me think a little. Was pretty surprised to see some people don't want to learn Mandarin or Russian. But then, after little bit of contemplation I realised I am in the same boat. This is all subjective, I hope nobody takes offence. I know a lot of people hold sentimental value for languages, and sometimes choice of language is not purely rational.

Reading the thread also made me think - and made me come to a realisation that I can find a language itself fascinating, but I'm very unlikely to dedicate time to learning it if I'm unlikely to use it in the near-future.

For example - Japanese is a fascinating language but I have very little interest in wider Japanese culture or the idea of visiting Japan (despite my love of cyberpunk-looking cityscapes.) I could also say the same about Korean and Mandarin (as I have very little interest in either country on the Korean Peninsular or China). Cantonese on the other hand is a language I'd be inclined to learn to some degree, due to the number of expat communities in my country from Hong Kong.

I think the same of Russian - a fascinating language but a country I'm not majorly interested in visiting. I'd have much more use for a working knowledge of Polish, and as such would be more inclined to invest time into it.

But beauty is in the eye of the beholder

I like Luca Lampariello's idea. You have to have a romance with the language.
I like the languages I am learning for various reasons, but most importantly I want to speak to people. To really speak to them I need to learn the language and contrary to popular belief I don't think you "study" or learn the culture by reading books about certain authors who felt like closing their door and writing a book, but rather by comunicating with and befriending the people who speak and live in that language.

I like to believe if you have a romance with a language love(usage) will find its way.

Ccaesar wrote:I like Luca Lampariello's idea. You have to have a romance with the language.
I like the languages I am learning for various reasons, but most importantly I want to speak to people. To really speak to them I need to learn the language and contrary to popular belief I don't think you "study" or learn the culture by reading books about certain authors who felt like closing their door and writing a book, but rather by comunicating with and befriending the people who speak and live in that language.

I like to believe if you have a romance with a language love(usage) will find its way.

Unfortunately, in a lot of cases the people just flirt with a language, and don't take it further. They don't develop the relationship into something more serious, they never end up finding out what kind of a character does the language have, the beautiful aspects, and not so pleasant aspects, refusing taking it the good with bad. A lot of people dump the language when they face their first major obstacle.