Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

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rdearman
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby rdearman » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:08 pm

smallwhite wrote:Questions for rdearman:

Background listening - Attention - Comprehension

Q1. I would've understood 8/9 had I paid full attention. But I was also playing Sudoku, so I only heard 3 out of every 9 sentences, and understood 8/9 of each, but since the sentences weren't sequential, I only got 1/9 of the plot.

What do I enter for Attention and Comprehension?

Q2. The audio is from my textbook and I already know it backwards, comprehension 9/9, but I re-listen to it nonetheless. I play Sudoku again and hear 3 out of every 9 sentences again, but I get the plot nonetheless because I know it and I can't unknow it.

What do I enter for Attention and Comprehension?

Thanks.


You need to select a number yourself. However the only thing I would like is that you use this consistantly. So if you decide on to mark it as a 5 then you need to use the same criteria each time.
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby smallwhite » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:24 pm

I'm thinking... Our improvement over the 180 days is measured mainly just by the Dialang tests which only tell you your CEFR level (A2, B1...) and not precise scores. But is 180 days enough to improve by 1 level so that you can see improvement? Chances are we'll improve from B1.1 to B1.5, which means we'll score B1 both pre- and post-study. What gives? Number-crunching:

FSI hours class + homework:
Cat I 1080 hrs
Cat IV 1980 hrs

We tend to take twice as long and then only reach B2:
Cat I 2160 hrs ( 2.5 hrs a day x 2.4 years )
Cat IV 3960 hrs ( 2.5 hrs a day x 4.3 years )
= average 3060 hrs ( 2.5 hrs a day x 3.4 years ) or ( 2.5 hrs a day x 1224 days )

Assume the time spent to reach each level is:
A1 ... 10%
A2 ... 20%
B1 ... 30%
B2 ... 40%

Then it takes:
From A0 to A1 ... 122 days
From A1 to A2 ... 245 days
From A2 to B1 ... 367 days
From B1 to B2 ... 490 days

Which means, over a 180-day period, only the improvement of participants advancing from A0 to A1 are sure to show in the Dialang results. The improvement of other participants may or may not show - will show if they start the study at the end of a level (B1.9, etc), won't show if they start at the beginning or middle of a level (A2.1, B2.5, etc).



Let's look at Cat I and Cat IV separately.



FSI hours class + homework:
Cat I 1080 hrs
Cat IV 1980 hrs

We tend to take twice as long and then only reach B2:
Cat I 2160 hrs ( 2.5 hrs a day x 864 days)
Cat IV 3960 hrs ( 2.5 hrs a day x 1584 days)

Assume the time spent to reach each level is:
A1 ... 10%
A2 ... 20%
B1 ... 30%
B2 ... 40%

Then it takes:
Cat I A1 ... 086 days
Cat I A2 ... 173 days
Cat I B1 ... 259 days
Cat I B2 ... 346 days
Cat IV A1 ... 158 days
Cat IV A2 ... 317 days
Cat IV B1 ... 475 days
Cat IV B2 ... 634 days

Similar. Need further number-crunching to say "most", but at least "a lot of" participants will score B1 both pre- and post-study, and even more will score B2 in both tests.
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby zenmonkey » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:24 pm

smallwhite wrote: But is 180 days enough to improve by 1 level so that you can see improvement?


(This is why our dear leader wants us to do a gazillion hours per day. Then we can make C1 in 6 days.)

More seriously, I think the CEFR framework considers the amount of time between to A2 as between A2 to B1. Or B2 to C1. C1 to C2. overall to be pretty similar and not the percentages you are using.

https://support.cambridgeenglish.org/hc ... ning-hours

(I'm not sure I believe it. I'd spontaneously guess numbers closer to yours.)

But, from various reference - calculating 2,5 hrs per day on a language - here are the number of days it takes to move from one level to another according to some reference data.

Screen Shot 2017-08-02 at 18.20.51.png


See here for the values: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Eu ... _Languages

It may be an issue for more complex languages ...
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:54 pm

rdearman wrote:You need to select a number yourself. However the only thing I would like is that you use this consistantly. So if you decide on to mark it as a 5 then you need to use the same criteria each time.


This could be a kind of SRS in itself. I've chosen to follow a certain kind of podcast series. The lessons are short (3-5 min), teach a few phrases on a given topic, and usually the comprehension is perfect. I add the phrases to Anki, do the lesson again, do my reviews in Anki, and that's it. Is it a 9 although the material was "new" just fifteen minutes ago? In a way I think it is, but as I do more lessons, who knows how "well" I will know the most recent ones compared to the first ones? Time will tell.
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby Pippa Butterfly » Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:43 pm

Guys, is there any way to join in? :roll:
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby rdearman » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:28 pm

Pippa Butterfly wrote:Guys, is there any way to join in? :roll:

Send an email to rick@anki-tv.co.uk with target language and I'll start the process and assign you to either control or study group.
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby Pippa Butterfly » Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:49 pm

Guys, do I have to do the 6 pages. I will only sign up for 2 languages?
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby cravinghummus » Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:18 pm

Pippa Butterfly wrote:Guys, do I have to do the 6 pages. I will only sign up for 2 languages?


well for me, one of my languages was at A0 (i never studied it before) so i didn't have to do the 6 pages assessment. but for the other one, i was already A2 so i had to do it. he needs it so that there's a baseline to compare to after the 6 months is over.
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby Sgt Schultz » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:42 pm

If it's not too late, I'd be willing to participate. I'm about to start French in preparation for a trip next spring. I'm A0 in French, only knowing a few words and phrases.
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby smallwhite » Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:28 am

rdearman wrote:You only have to report back monthly...


I submitted my spreadsheet for August promptly on Sep 1st but I can't help but wonder...
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