Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby rdearman » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:47 pm

AndyMeg wrote:What I don't understand is this: if subs2srs is allowed, why wouldn't be the parallel texts? I mean, isn't subs2srs a form of parallel text but with video content? Or will the subs2srs only be allowed with a transcription of the TL but not with its corresponding translation?

Because subs2srs is basically translation of a sentence or two, on a card, whereas parallel text would allow you to simply read the book. I don't know how to describe this but basically using a dictionary and looking up the words in a sentence, or subs2srs of a sentence or two are different from having the entire comprehensible input at hand and staring at you. Same reason for not allowing native language sub-titles while watching a film, you basically end up reading the film, not listening to it.
AndyMeg wrote:And, is it obligatory for the test group to use a SRS?

No but some kind of wordlist or method of reviewing words you've looked up would be.
AndyMeg wrote:And another question:

If a dictionary is permitted, can you look for grammar explanations of things you encounter while using the native materials? Or will the test group only be permitted to look each individual word? And what about idioms? (their meaning doesn't correlate with the meaning of each of its constituent parts).


The purpose of the study is:
Can exclusive use of native materials will allow a person to increase their language level as scored by the CEFL compared to traditional methods such as tutoring, course work or grammar study?


So grammar lookups are not allowed. I'm not trying to determine if you'll understand everything there is to know, only to measure what, if any, improvement a participant gets using native materials as opposed to using coursework, teachers, or grammatical study. As far as idioms, you can figure some of them out via context. I worked out “In bocca al lupo” is good luck, when watching Italian TV, just because of the context.

Depending on the results of the study, (assuming it makes any difference at all) then people would then use this information to tailor their self-study appropriately.
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby rdearman » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:50 pm

Just to clarify, not allowing grammar lookups is just to try and keep the two groups doing different things. You might need to look up something, and I'm not going to kick you out of the study if you did. Just like I'm sure someone in the control group is going to read a book or watch a film. There will be overlap, but the two groups should be biased in one direction or the other.
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby Brun Ugle » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:51 pm

Maybe you should describe more specifically how the test group would study. I thought it was just going to be using Anki decks made from movies or TV shows and then watching those movies/TV shows every few weeks, but now it sounds like there will be other kinds of input as well.
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby Systematiker » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:02 pm

I have one follow-up question regarding the test group use of SRS:

Since it's pegged to native-input and recall from lookups, I'd have to make my own cards, right? It wouldn't be ok to use, say, a premade vocab list to drill on top of native input? I'm asking for a couple of reasons, as if I'm going to do it, I'd be in for either Korean or Czech, and in both cases making my own cards is going to be exponentially harder (the former due to difficulty of lookups after being mostly audio up to now, the latter being an A0 start so I'd be jumping in at the deep end with lookups from nongraded native material).
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby rdearman » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:05 pm

Brun Ugle wrote:Maybe you should describe more specifically how the test group would study. I thought it was just going to be using Anki decks made from movies or TV shows and then watching those movies/TV shows every few weeks, but now it sounds like there will be other kinds of input as well.


Good idea. So the test group restrictions are:
- Only use native material (or translations into TL) this means you can use things like:
  • TV, Film, or Podcasts in TL.
  • TL sub-titles
  • Dictionary for looking up word meanings
  • Books written in TL
  • SRS to review words learned or looked up. This could be Anki, Paper, wordlists, etc. but ONLY decks or cards created by yourself.
  • Use subs2srs to create at least 1 deck to review and learn the dialogue of a film or TV show.
  • EDIT: Language exchanges with native speakers are allowed, as long as it is conversation not tutoring.

- Not allowed
  • Grammar books, grammar study
  • Courses like Assimil, Pimsluer, etc.
  • Teachers, tutors, iTalki community tutors, etc.
  • Classes
  • Pre-generated word lists or frequency SRS decks

Now it might be that some people can't use anki or have to pay for it so it isn't obligatory, but highly recommended.
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby rdearman » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:07 pm

Systematiker wrote:I have one follow-up question regarding the test group use of SRS:

Since it's pegged to native-input and recall from lookups, I'd have to make my own cards, right? It wouldn't be ok to use, say, a premade vocab list to drill on top of native input? I'm asking for a couple of reasons, as if I'm going to do it, I'd be in for either Korean or Czech, and in both cases making my own cards is going to be exponentially harder (the former due to difficulty of lookups after being mostly audio up to now, the latter being an A0 start so I'd be jumping in at the deep end with lookups from nongraded native material).

No, you have to make your own. The control group have the luxury of pre-made courses and frequency lists, but the test group have to use what is in the native content.
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby Systematiker » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:12 pm

rdearman wrote:
Systematiker wrote:I have one follow-up question regarding the test group use of SRS:

Since it's pegged to native-input and recall from lookups, I'd have to make my own cards, right? It wouldn't be ok to use, say, a premade vocab list to drill on top of native input? I'm asking for a couple of reasons, as if I'm going to do it, I'd be in for either Korean or Czech, and in both cases making my own cards is going to be exponentially harder (the former due to difficulty of lookups after being mostly audio up to now, the latter being an A0 start so I'd be jumping in at the deep end with lookups from nongraded native material).

No, you have to make your own. The control group have the luxury of pre-made courses and frequency lists, but the test group have to use what is in the native content.



May I front-load that (i.e. begin making lists or cards now under those rules), or must that creation also be done within the study period?

Edit: Also, how bad would it skew your data if I front-load a bunch of course study in the next couple weeks before you officially start?
Last edited by Systematiker on Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:16 pm

Imagine an A0 beginner taking a dual track with related languages, such as Czech with pain (only native content) and Slovak with ease (all the help you can get). That would be interesting.
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby Systematiker » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:17 pm

jeff_lindqvist wrote:What if someone (A0) followed a dual track with related languages, such as Czech with pain (only native content) and Slovak with ease (all the help you can get). That would be interesting.



I'm actually thinking about something almost like this, I don't have two A0 languages that I'd do it for, but a weak A1 and an A0...
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:22 pm

I'm not surprised, I was thinking of you. :D
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