As many of you know I'm going to do a study on language improvement using native materials vs other methods. I'm hoping to kick this off at the end of July and to have written up the instructions, create control group, etc.. Now the problem is that I need more people to join in and try. The study will run for 6 months and you'll be either in the test group (using only native materials & anki) or part of the control group (you use your normal methods). I need people who are B2 or below in their target language and are willing to record their study activities (regardless of group) for 6 months. There will be a test at the start and at the end. I will publish the results here, and perhaps present them at the next Polyglot Gathering.
I've setup a special email domain, so if your interested you can email rick@anki-tv.co.uk or just PM me here with your address. I'm away for a week so don't worry if I don't reply immediately. Questions or comments welcome.
Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials
- rdearman
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Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials
I would like to participate, but it is not easy to figure out how. The choice of langauge to participate with is not that clear to me.
1.native materials are my normal methods, but I usually add some grammarbooks and courses to them. Do I understand well that for participation, I would need to either get rid of the grammarbooks/courses OR get rid of native materials? I am asking to make sure I get it, this is not an sarcastic attempt on criticism or anything like that Therefore I'd need to choose a language I have no exam or similar goals planned for in 2017 or 2018, so that I wouldn't need to combine the two approaches.
2.My second concern is the choice of language with regards to our language background. For the purpose of your study, are related languages to our well known ones disqualified? I think my Italian could be used, but of course the results are bound to be affected by my French and Spanish. The same way, if I started learning Polish, the results would be different than if I restarted Finnish.
3.The initial level and learning background. To make the study possible, the samples will need to be comparable. You say level B2 is the main condition. Overall B2? The best skill at B2? My Italian is A2ish actively, but definitely higher than B2 passively. Would a completely new language qualify? How are the participants going to be tested? And won't the results be affected by the previous study methods? After all, there are people who already use lots of native input long before B2.
1.native materials are my normal methods, but I usually add some grammarbooks and courses to them. Do I understand well that for participation, I would need to either get rid of the grammarbooks/courses OR get rid of native materials? I am asking to make sure I get it, this is not an sarcastic attempt on criticism or anything like that Therefore I'd need to choose a language I have no exam or similar goals planned for in 2017 or 2018, so that I wouldn't need to combine the two approaches.
2.My second concern is the choice of language with regards to our language background. For the purpose of your study, are related languages to our well known ones disqualified? I think my Italian could be used, but of course the results are bound to be affected by my French and Spanish. The same way, if I started learning Polish, the results would be different than if I restarted Finnish.
3.The initial level and learning background. To make the study possible, the samples will need to be comparable. You say level B2 is the main condition. Overall B2? The best skill at B2? My Italian is A2ish actively, but definitely higher than B2 passively. Would a completely new language qualify? How are the participants going to be tested? And won't the results be affected by the previous study methods? After all, there are people who already use lots of native input long before B2.
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- smallwhite
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials
I have loads of questions but it would look rude to ask them all. Will there be more information later or is that OP it?
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- rdearman
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials
Cavesa wrote:1.native materials are my normal methods, but I usually add some grammarbooks and courses to them. Do I understand well that for participation, I would need to either get rid of the grammarbooks/courses OR get rid of native materials? I am asking to make sure I get it, this is not an sarcastic attempt on criticism or anything like that Therefore I'd need to choose a language I have no exam or similar goals planned for in 2017 or 2018, so that I wouldn't need to combine the two approaches.
The idea here is that you'd only use only the things which would be allowed in the Super Challenge. So no grammar books, courses, etc. However, you could be part of the control group, which means you'd just learn as you normally would, but you'd need to record what you're doing.
Cavesa wrote:2.My second concern is the choice of language with regards to our language background. For the purpose of your study, are related languages to our well known ones disqualified? I think my Italian could be used, but of course the results are bound to be affected by my French and Spanish. The same way, if I started learning Polish, the results would be different than if I restarted Finnish.
No, I'm only measuring improvement. However on the questionnaire at the start you will be asked the languages you know, and so language families would be taken into account. The real problem is I don't have any way of getting a completely random sample of people, so this is what is known as an opportunity sample. The only mono-lingual person I've had sign up so far is my own daughter!
Cavesa wrote:3.The initial level and learning background. To make the study possible, the samples will need to be comparable. You say level B2 is the main condition. Overall B2? The best skill at B2? My Italian is A2ish actively, but definitely higher than B2 passively. Would a completely new language qualify? How are the participants going to be tested? And won't the results be affected by the previous study methods? After all, there are people who already use lots of native input long before B2.
There will be an initial test to determine your level, then a second test to determine level after the 6 months is up. The only reason I selected B2 or below, is that measure of someone into C1 in 6 months would be difficult, but I would hope for some improvement from A1-B2. A completely new language is fine, I don't mind a starter at A0. There are a lot of problems with a opportunity sample, however, without the resources of a major educational institution or other well funded organisation, I need to use what I can. This means the more people I can get on board the better. Even people who don't want to use native materials for the control group.
It doesn't matter if you used native materials prior to the start of the study, since in theory the assessment on the start date will get your level then, and we'll measure the improvement (or lack there of) in both groups. At the end of the study, I'll need to do a lot of work to compare like for like A2-A2 who did X hours per day on average, etc., People who have a known language in the same family, etc.
So, please everyone sign up! If you don't want to change your language plans and want to be in the control group just let me know.
smallwhite wrote:I have loads of question but it would look rude to ask them all. Will there be more information later or is that OP it?
Ask away! Each question helps me make the study better and more clearly defined.
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- smallwhite
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials
rdearman wrote:smallwhite wrote:I have loads of question but it would look rude to ask them all. Will there be more information later or is that OP it?
Ask away! Each question helps me make the study better and more clearly defined.
Lazy fist at work...
Are all of these paces acceptable?
- studying for 5 hours a day every day
- studying for 20 minutes a day every day
- studying for 20 minutes a day several days a week
- studying for 8 hours a day on Sats and Suns only
- a total of 30 hours scattered over 6 months
etc?
I can study very efficiently or I can study very leisurely. I can't study "naturally" as there's no default pace. And I can't study naturally when I'm timing myself and when I know someone's looking. How do I deal with that?
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials
smallwhite wrote:rdearman wrote:smallwhite wrote:I have loads of question but it would look rude to ask them all. Will there be more information later or is that OP it?
Ask away! Each question helps me make the study better and more clearly defined.
Lazy fist at work...
hehehe... Yep
smallwhite wrote:Are all of these paces acceptable?
- studying for 5 hours a day every day
- studying for 20 minutes a day every day
- studying for 20 minutes a day several days a week
- studying for 8 hours a day on Sats and Suns only
- a total of 30 hours scattered over 6 months
etc?
I can study very efficiently or I can study very leisurely. I can't study "naturally" as there's no default pace. And I can't study naturally when I'm timing myself and when I know someone's looking. How do I deal with that?
I did think about this, and decided that I cannot dictate how much time people invest in this study, all that I could do is take the total study hours reported by users and compare the averages. Hopefully, if you were in the control group and did 30 hours over 6 months, I could find someone in the other group who did the same amount of time, with the same level of language at the start.
More likely the results will be presented like:
- 5% of participants in test group who studies for 5 hours a day every day showed more improvement than either control group participants who studied the same amount of time or other test group participants.
- Participants who studied for less than 1 hour in 6 months showed no improvement.
I'll be basically trying to match people in both groups who are very similar in languages, time spent, etc. Also general tendencies for both groups.
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- zenmonkey
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials
So... more than willing to sign up - but depending on what group I'm put into I'd probably change languages - Hebrew / Tibetan / Slovak / Icelandic (low A level languages) for 'normal method' and German / Italian / Portuguese (B2? / 'It's complicated' relationship languages) for 'native material' where I think I'd work well with native material. Will this type of choice tend to skew your results?
I guess teachers are out on 'native material' but what about tandems?
In the Super Challenge you can use non-native material, it just doesn't count in the study time?
Or you could do this with 'people mostly using native material' and allow some time with dictionaries and grammar vs 'normal method'?
Are cards, SRS, word lists, shadowing, etc... out for 'native material' even when made from native material?
How are podcasts treated?
I guess teachers are out on 'native material' but what about tandems?
In the Super Challenge you can use non-native material, it just doesn't count in the study time?
Or you could do this with 'people mostly using native material' and allow some time with dictionaries and grammar vs 'normal method'?
Are cards, SRS, word lists, shadowing, etc... out for 'native material' even when made from native material?
How are podcasts treated?
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials
What would be the method for the test group?
How detailed should be the reports on the way we are studying?
How detailed should be the reports on the way we are studying?
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- smallwhite
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials
Are we trying to learn as much as possible and beat the other group?
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- Brun Ugle
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials
For a guy who claims to be lazy, you sure do know how to make a lot of work for yourself.
What if people are studying more than one language? Could they join several times, perhaps doing some languages by your method and some by their own method?
What if people are studying more than one language? Could they join several times, perhaps doing some languages by your method and some by their own method?
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