Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

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rdearman
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby rdearman » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:26 pm

Systematiker wrote:
rdearman wrote:
Systematiker wrote:I have one follow-up question regarding the test group use of SRS:

Since it's pegged to native-input and recall from lookups, I'd have to make my own cards, right? It wouldn't be ok to use, say, a premade vocab list to drill on top of native input? I'm asking for a couple of reasons, as if I'm going to do it, I'd be in for either Korean or Czech, and in both cases making my own cards is going to be exponentially harder (the former due to difficulty of lookups after being mostly audio up to now, the latter being an A0 start so I'd be jumping in at the deep end with lookups from nongraded native material).

No, you have to make your own. The control group have the luxury of pre-made courses and frequency lists, but the test group have to use what is in the native content.



May I front-load that (i.e. begin making lists or cards now under those rules), or must that creation also be done within the study period?

Edit: Also, how bad would it skew your data if I front-load a bunch of course study in the next couple weeks before you officially start?

You don't know which group you'd be in. :)

In theory what you do in the next couple of weeks really wouldn't matter, because your level is determined at the time of the first exam. After you take that exam however, if you're part of the test group, you'd have to remove all your decks you made from the courses and start clean with only the deck you generate from the native content and a subs2srs deck. If you're part of the control group you could carry on with those cards, since you'd be allowed pre-made cards.
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby Systematiker » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:32 pm

rdearman wrote:You don't know which group you'd be in. :)




If I'm trying to be my own data point and spend the same amount of time in two weak languages (for both of which I don't speak another in the same family worth anything, and both of which are pretty far from my native!) using two methods I do... :D
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby DaveBee » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:11 pm

rdearman wrote:
Brun Ugle wrote:Maybe you should describe more specifically how the test group would study. I thought it was just going to be using Anki decks made from movies or TV shows and then watching those movies/TV shows every few weeks, but now it sounds like there will be other kinds of input as well.


Good idea. So the test group restrictions are:
- Only use native material (or translations into TL) this means you can use things like:
  • TV, Film, or Podcasts in TL.
  • TL sub-titles
  • Dictionary for looking up word meanings
  • Books written in TL
  • SRS to review words learned or looked up. This could be Anki, Paper, wordlists, etc. but ONLY decks or cards created by yourself.
  • Use subs2srs to create at least 1 deck to review and learn the dialogue of a film or TV show.
  • EDIT: Language exchanges with native speakers are allowed, as long as it is conversation not tutoring.

- Not allowed
  • Grammar books, grammar study
  • Courses like Assimil, Pimsluer, etc.
  • Teachers, tutors, iTalki community tutors, etc.
  • Classes
  • Pre-generated word lists or frequency SRS decks

Now it might be that some people can't use anki or have to pay for it so it isn't obligatory, but highly recommended.
What about Grammar books in the TL, aimed at native speakers?

e.g. Bescherelle école
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby smallwhite » Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:10 am

rdearman wrote:... to record their study activities (regardless of group) for 6 months.

6 weeks is hard enough and now 6 months... How will background listening be counted? I go out by myself for 8 hours on a Sunday wearing earphones, in the park I pay 60% attention to the mp3, on the train 90%, in a jewellery shop 5%... and the discount % I choose (à la 6WC) can make a lot of difference when multiplied by 8 hours.

Q2. What are you expecting the results to be like?

Q3. Are you putting us in groups based on the language we've chosen and our results, or is it random?

Q4. Do I choose a language first or do you put me in a group first?
Last edited by smallwhite on Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby rdearman » Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:23 am

DaveBee wrote:
rdearman wrote:
Brun Ugle wrote:Maybe you should describe more specifically how the test group would study. I thought it was just going to be using Anki decks made from movies or TV shows and then watching those movies/TV shows every few weeks, but now it sounds like there will be other kinds of input as well.


Good idea. So the test group restrictions are:
- Only use native material (or translations into TL) this means you can use things like:
  • TV, Film, or Podcasts in TL.
  • TL sub-titles
  • Dictionary for looking up word meanings
  • Books written in TL
  • SRS to review words learned or looked up. This could be Anki, Paper, wordlists, etc. but ONLY decks or cards created by yourself.
  • Use subs2srs to create at least 1 deck to review and learn the dialogue of a film or TV show.
  • EDIT: Language exchanges with native speakers are allowed, as long as it is conversation not tutoring.

- Not allowed
  • Grammar books, grammar study
  • Courses like Assimil, Pimsluer, etc.
  • Teachers, tutors, iTalki community tutors, etc.
  • Classes
  • Pre-generated word lists or frequency SRS decks

Now it might be that some people can't use anki or have to pay for it so it isn't obligatory, but highly recommended.
What about Grammar books in the TL, aimed at native speakers?

e.g. Bescherelle école

You could, although the point of the study is to compare people who use grammar books and traditional methods against people who don't, so I would probably be forced to throw your data out.
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby rdearman » Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:28 am

smallwhite wrote:
rdearman wrote:... to record their study activities (regardless of group) for 6 months.

6 weeks is hard enough and now 6 months... How will background listening be counted? I go out by myself for 8 hours on a Sunday wearing earphones, in the park I pay 60% attention to the mp3, on the train 90%, in a jewellery shop 5%... and the discount % I choose (à la 6WC) can make a lot off difference when multiplied by 8 hours.

Q2. What are you expecting the results to be like?

Q3. Are you putting us in groups based on the language we've chosen and our results, or is it random?

Q4. Do I choose a language first or do you put me in a group first?


If you're not paying attention it doesn't count.

As advised by the statistics professor i spoke to i should expect no difference.

Pseudo randomly, see answer below.

You choose a language, although on the questionnaire i plan to ask if you prefer to be in the test or control group. But it doesn't guarantee you will be in the preferred group.
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby rdearman » Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:42 am

Thought I should plug in a keyboard to give a better answer to the question about how groups will be determined. The idea is that both groups would be perfectly matched. So for example if I had 2 Male French learners at level A2, then I would separate them into test and control. But I might instead have one male, one female French A2 participants, so again I put one in each group. If I have 2 female French but one is A1 and the other A2, then I split them up.

So the principle is to make the group's exactly equal, but because that is unlikely then the division will be, language, level, other. So in the examples above you can see because I have 2 French learners I split them up. But it might be that I have to decide when I have 1 Spanish learner and 1 Italian leather, so I would split them up because of language family.

I will try to make both groups of equal size and in the other group someone who closely resembles you in terms of language, level, etc. BTW, gender is mostly unimportant to me, but for example if I had 3 French learners, all A2 level, but two were female and the other male, I would split the two females and randomly assigned the male.

If there are 3 participants all equal in every respect, then I'll randomly assign them.

Hope that makes things clearer.
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby Ani » Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:57 am

I would be super interested in participating but the thought of making my own subs2srs decks and aligning subtitles makes me hyperventilate. Should only people who don't freak out at the idea of being in the test group apply?
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby Brun Ugle » Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:14 am

Ani wrote:I would be super interested in participating but the thought of making my own subs2srs decks and aligning subtitles makes me hyperventilate. Should only people who don't freak out at the idea of being in the test group apply?

Rdearman promised to make a super-easy step-by-step guide with screen-shots to show how to do it. Maybe he should do that soon (hint, hint) so that we can practice and see if we can make it work. After all, if we spend the first 5 months of the experiment trying to figure out how to put our movies into Anki, it's not going to go well.
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Re: Study on Language Improvement with Native Materials

Postby rdearman » Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:21 am

Ani wrote:I would be super interested in participating but the thought of making my own subs2srs decks and aligning subtitles makes me hyperventilate. Should only people who don't freak out at the idea of being in the test group apply?

The subs2srs deck isn't obligatory, but I would give everyone assistance and instructions to help them do it. If the DVD you use has both TL & NL on it, then you don't need to align subtitles. :)

But if it really freaks you out, then you can always apply and put a preference for the control group.
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